canberrabirds

hunting in nsw national parks

To: Cog line <>
Subject: hunting in nsw national parks
From: sandra henderson <>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 16:29:55 +1100
I've just written to NSW MPs O'Farrell, Parker, Souris, Barilaro (the
"local" MP), Gallacher, Hodgkinson expressing my concern as a
birdwatcher who does a lot of travelling in NSW.
In the past 2 yrs I've visited at least 13 of the parks/reserves on
the list, and I spend money in lots of NSW towns when I'm visiting
these places - if visitation declines then there's an economic effect
on local areas too, but my real concerns are personal safety and fact
that recreational hunting is not an effective/ethical control measure
for feral animals.

sandra h

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Anthony Overs <> wrote:
> Interesting point raised by Julian, and I agree, hunters have been known to
> release animals to keep up numbers. I was told of a pig hunter that releases
> pregnant sows into the bush so that there is a steady supply of animals to
> shoot. Apparently the sow's ears are cut off so that she cannot be brought
> down by dogs.
>
> Anthony
>
>
> On 6 February 2013 15:16, Julian Robinson <>
> wrote:
>>
>> The best discussion I’ve found on this subject is this 2009 paper by the
>> Invasive Species Council.
>> http://www.invasives.org.au/documents/file/reports/Critique_IsHuntingConservation.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> It refers to my own major problem with this outrageous policy (I think
>> much more serious than gunshot risk to other park users) – the certainty
>> that shooters will deliberately introduce ‘stock’ (feral animals) into their
>> favourite hunting patch (National Park or Nature Reserve).  The interests of
>> hunters are absolutely opposed to the desire to eliminate ferals from any
>> allowable hunting ground.  Their interest is to maintain stocks at a
>> satisfying level, that is, the numbers that ensure they can likely find a
>> target without too much trouble.  That number is in most cases higher than
>> the number now present.
>>
>>
>>
>> Successful policies are those that align personal (selfish) motivations
>> with a desirable social outcome.  This is the opposite and will inevitably
>> make things worse in areas that currently are not in much trouble.
>>
>>
>>
>> Take Mark’s Charcoal Tank as an example.  At present you might find some
>> rabbits and maybe a fox or two.  I’m sure there’s a few hunters in West
>> Wyalong who’d like some more fun than they are getting now, and driving out
>> to Charcoal Tank to blast a few rabbits doesn’t quite cut it. But if they
>> could get a few pigs in there, or even some goats, what fun they could have.
>> Worse than that, after the situation settles down and people forget where
>> the pigs or goats came from, their regular shooting to “control numbers”
>> will be seen as a justification for the continuation of this very bad
>> policy!
>>
>>
>>
>> My letter to the NSW ministers is below, encouraging anyone motivated
>> enough to improve on it and send in similar letters.
>>
>>
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> www.flickr.com/photos/ozjulian/
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> I write about the unsupportable decision to allow shooting in National
>> Parks and other reserves in NSW.  Quite apart from the obvious and well
>> discussed dangers, there is one very serious issue that I have not yet seen
>> addressed adequately and that deserves further attention and a
>> reconsideration of the new legislation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Irresponsible game shooters are well known to actively introduce target
>> species to areas in which they are allowed to shoot.  This has been cited
>> often as a reason for the numbers and extent of deer, pigs and perhaps goats
>> that are now pests in public and private land throughout eastern Australia.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of the reserves in which shooting is soon to be allowed are quite
>> small and isolated by surrounding cropland.  The temptation to release just
>> a few piglets, goats or deer in such reserves will be irresistible to a
>> minority of shooters.  What could be more attractive to a not-so-thoughtful
>> shooter than a local ‘private’ hunting ground?  Many of these reserves
>> currently support few or uninteresting feral species, so that the pressure
>> to augment feral stocks will be great.
>>
>>
>>
>> What is a keen hunter going to do in the unlikely event that his local
>> hunting ground (National Park or Nature Reserve) appears to be running low
>> on 'stock'?  Where is the vested interest for shooters to actually eliminate
>> any feral animals at all? On the contrary, there is a considerable
>> motivation to increase the number of feral animals so that they can be seen
>> to be 'doing more' and being a more impressive part of the 'solution'.
>> Personal interest is completely opposed to the professed objectives of the
>> policy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Given we already know that feral translocation by shooters has occurred
>> extensively in the past and largely if not entirely caused the present
>> problem, any legislation that encourages such introductions to areas of even
>> higher conservation value is an appalling, unforgivable change.  Together
>> with the certainty that some native animals will be accidentally shot and
>> the fact that general recreational hunting has never been shown to control
>> any feral species in any location in Australia, what is the justification
>> that allows changing the law?  We are faced with a lose-lose and yet one
>> more 'lose' for our limited remaining native species.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hunting can be an enjoyable and satisfying activity for many people,
>> including me. Unfortunately in the context of Australia’s contemporary
>> highly degraded ecosystems it has become an unnecessary and destructive
>> luxury that, if allowed at all, should be limited to dedicated self-funded
>> hunting reserves.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has the government included consideration of the problem of deliberate
>> feral translocations into national parks and reserves, and if so, what
>> evidence was used to decide the new laws would not make the situation worse
>> than it is now?
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely
>>
>>
>>
>> Julian Robinson
>>
>> 62/44 Jerrabomberra Av
>>
>> NARRRABUNDAH   ACT 2604
>>
>> Australia
>>
>>
>>
>> 02-6239 6226
>>
>> 0419 039 540
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Graeme Clifton 
>> Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013 21:18
>> To: Denis Wilson
>> Cc: Daniel Hoops; COG list
>> Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] hunting in nsw national parks
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>           This is about the craziest idea I have come across in a long
>> while BUT let's have a reality check.  The Coalition doesn't have the
>> numbers in the Legislative Assembley (UpperHouse) and so has struck a deal
>> with the Shooters Party, ie you vote with the Government and you can do what
>> you like in National Parks, Nature Reserves etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> It could be worse, they could have struck a deal with Fred and Elaine
>> Nile.
>>
>>
>>
>> As for shooting stuff, the main targets will be pigs and goats.  It takes
>> a very dedicated and expert hunter to find and shoot deer unless they are
>> spotlighting.
>>
>>
>>
>> The NPWS have maintained for a long, long time that shooting is not an
>> effective way of controlling pigs.  They favour poisoning and or trapping
>> with grain as the bait after free feeding for some time.  Disturbance by
>> shooters scares the pigs from the trapping site.
>>
>>
>>
>> As for goats, the shooters will only generally be interested in trophy
>> Billy's and kids for the camp oven.  They will have next to no impact on the
>> overall population.  The best way forward with goat control is several real
>> good working dogs and temporary yards and a truck to take the goats to the
>> abattoirs.  The economics will be dependant on the location.
>>
>>
>>
>> Shooters in National Parks. NO
>>
>>
>>
>> Graeme Clifton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 04/02/2013, at 7:29 PM, Denis Wilson <> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Daniel
>>
>> Re shooting in National Parks, my main concern is personal safety.
>> Last year there was a tragic accident when a NZ shooter mistook a school
>> teacher for a deer, and shot and killed her.
>> Such "accidents" are not unknown - though usually shooters shoot other
>> members in their own group.
>>
>> I live adjacent to the huge Morton National Park (see map attached).
>> It had two State Main Roads which run through it ,  the Braidwood to Nowra
>> Road (Main Road 92) and Fitzroy Falls to Nowra road. And it can also be
>> accessed from the Ulladulla side.
>> And it has numerous other entry points (especially around Kangaroo
>> Valley).
>>
>> The media for these far-spread  areas are controlled in Nowra, Goulburn
>> and Bowral.
>> One cannot listen to all sources of media in any one point.
>> How are they going to get the word out to me that the Park is closed?
>>
>> There is no way they can possibly close main roads of economic and
>> strategic significance leading to and from Canberra to Nowra. So, short of
>> blocking 100 minor roads, how do they "close" this Park?
>> NPWS have inadequate staffing to do that at the best of times - let alone
>> when the NPWS Staff are openly hostile to the idea.
>>
>> The NSW Game Council, the State Organisation "responsible" for this
>> Shooting Program has hardly any staff at all. It really exists as a revenue
>> raiser for NSW as the Licensing body for the Shooters.
>>
>> Beyond issues of safety, my personal interest is in rare and endangered
>> Orchids (of which this Park is well endowed). What chance is that a bunch of
>> ill-informed shooters will take any notice or concern for tiny Orchids in
>> the leaf litter, when slipping and sliding down a steep hill-side, in search
>> of their prey?
>>
>> They would have no idea of what damage they might be doing.
>> Need I really go on?
>>
>> Incidentally, in the hundreds of hours I have spent in this Park I have
>> never seen any Deer, nor Goats and only one suckling Pig which I reported to
>> the nearby farm from which it had escaped several days before.
>>
>> This is a vastly different situation from the large numbers of wild Pigs
>> and Goats in the Far Western region, near Broken Hill.
>>
>> Incidentally,. my personal experience of shooters I have known is that
>> they like to take their "Pig Dogs" out in the bush and let them chase
>> "Game". The usual result is badly mauled Wombats and Kangaroos - both of
>> which are protected species.
>>
>> Mark Clayton has already affirmed that after hundreds of banding trips to
>> Charcoal Tank and Buddigower, he has seldom seen any "game animals" in those
>> Nature Reserves (both listed on the Parks to be opened to shooters)
>>
>> Denis Wilson
>> Robertson NSW 2577
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Daniel Hoops <>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe I'm just ignorant, but why are you against this hunting? From what I
>> understand, the hunt will be on invasive large mammals, which are
>> unbelieveably destructive in a lot of National Parks. Isn't it a good thing
>> to allow people who want to shoot them for free shoot them? The parks will
>> be closed during the hunts, so what's the danger to the public?
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, according to this website, duck hunting cannot take place on
>> National Parklands.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dan
>>
>> Daniel Hoops
>> PhD Candidate, Keogh Lab
>> Ecology, Evolution & Genetics
>> Research School of Biology
>> The Australian National University
>> Room B17, Building 44, Daley Road
>> Canberra, ACT, 0200
>> Australia
>> 02 61251097
>>
>>
>>
>> On 04/02/2013, at 5:37 PM, Denis Wilson wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> To satisfy Mark's concern, let me say that in NSW, there is a very strong
>> campaign against hunting in National Parks being led by the Nature
>> Conservation Council of NSW, the Total Environment Centre, National Parks
>> Association of NSW, and the NSW Greens.
>>
>> That having been said, Mark is correct in his interpretation of everything
>> else.
>>
>> It is a political problem for NSW to deal with, however, and as ever,
>> politicians are inclined to ignore people outside their constituency.
>>
>> But don't feel bad, Mark - my local Member in NSW is ignoring my
>> vehemently expressed opinions.
>> There will be a rally outside his office, In Kiama, on 23 February. But
>> already we know he will not be attending.
>>
>> Yours - in Hi Vis apparel
>>
>> Denis Wilson
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Mark Clayton <> wrote:
>>
>> Jude,
>>
>>
>>
>> I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for a sensible reply from the Premier,
>> Robin Parker who is the Environment Minister (I wonder if she actually knows
>> what the term means?!!!), nor from Bob Conroy, the Director “Conservation
>> Operations Division” (my quotation marks) for the National Parks and
>> Wildlife Service. As I think I said in a previous email, I received a reply
>> from the Premier’s Parliamentary Secretary, the “Honourable (again my
>> quotation marks) Marie Ficarra that was almost word for word to a reply a
>> colleague received from Conroy when she emailed the Premier. I also know of
>> a retired senior Federal Government researcher who worked on feral species
>> who received essentially the same reply. Basically we have been treated like
>> idiots!
>>
>>
>>
>> One thing that really gets on my goat – excuse the pun (intended) – is
>> that the Game Council, a section within the Premier’s Department, has now
>> declared that the deer “hunting” season has now CLOSED. What sort of morons
>> are running this show. The whole thing smacks of hypocracy!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> I must add that I am disappointed by what appears to be the apathy shown
>> by most COG members to this problem and I have not heard of the committee
>> doing anything – I hope I am mistaken. Only a few people have replied to my
>> original email. If people don’t protest then we deserve what we cop.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> From: jude hopwood 
>> Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013 4:44 PM
>> To: COG
>> Subject: [canberrabirds] hunting in nsw national parks
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Appended:  cut and paste direct from current NSW National Parks and
>> Wildlife Service website
>>
>>                          Protest form letter from
>> http://nohunting.wildwalks.com/  for those who might like to express an
>> (edited) opinion before this legislation is enacted in March
>>
>>
>>
>> Further to Philip's original email and Mark's comments on dogs with
>> hunters, I was inspired to look at the NSW Parks website and found something
>> to make one's gobsmacked brain reel a  little more.  How has the description
>> of 'Illegal Activities in National Parks' gone from that selected and noted
>> below to the new legislation? How are hunters going to move around the parks
>> with shooting equipment and remain on the 'authorised' roads?  Does their
>> 'bag' lie where it is shot? Are the shooters permitted to 'harvest' their
>> kill?  I am awaiting response from premier's department.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank heavens we also have those who are brave enough to attend to the
>> deadly and pesky duck problem! Kind of the dept to encourage them to 'enjoy
>> their harvest'. Surely a re-introduced and expanded duck destruction season
>> is just what we need...
>>
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Jude
>>
>> Illegal Activities in Parks
>>
>> If you see anyone doing anything suspicious in a park or reserve, please
>> report it. Illegal activities may include:
>>
>> ·         hunting of any kind
>>
>> ·         trapping or collecting birds, birds' eggs, reptiles or other
>> animals
>>
>> ·         driving or riding vehicles, bikes and horses on unauthorised
>> track
>>
>> 3.Conservation Hunting
>> to assist rice farmers
>>
>> Over the past two years NSW and inland Australia have been experiencing
>> significant rainfall. As a result of this, ducks have been breeding up over
>> the past 18 months. The rainfall has also meant that this year there will be
>> significant areas of rice grown in southern NSW. Holders of NSW Game Hunting
>> Licences can participate in the NSW Game Bird Management Program and assist
>> farmers by controlling ducks that have the potential to ruin crops by eating
>> the freshly planted seed, young emerging plants and, later, the mature crop.
>>
>> Will I be able to utilise the ducks harvested under this program?
>>
>> Yes, although the program is a mitigation program, hunters must hunt
>> ethically and legally. Game Council also encourages all hunters involved to
>> remove and utilise the ducks taken in the program so that they can enjoy the
>> wild harvest.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Denis Wilson
>> If you're not pissed off with the World, you're just not paying attention.
>> (Kasey Chambers)
>>
>> "The Nature of Robertson"
>> www.peonyden.blogspot.com.au
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Denis Wilson
>> If you're not pissed off with the World, you're just not paying attention.
>> (Kasey Chambers)
>>
>> "The Nature of Robertson"
>> www.peonyden.blogspot.com.au
>>
>> <Morton NP - Map 2013 - web.jpg>
>>
>>
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