Hi Everyone
This is my first post dealing with issues- On Maccas - Australia All Over on
the ABC the other Sunday, he was talking to a guy who told him there are an
estimated 20million feral cats in Australia eating 3 of our wildlife species
each day/night so 60million insects, reptiles, mammals or birds etc. being
devoured each and every day. If the wildlife were livestock of some
description the farmers would be up in arms and Governments would be doing
something about the problem.
On Tuesday I was emailed "Focusing on Wildlife"
and the lead article was about WA's Department
of Parks & Wildlife who have being working for the past decade on a bait for
feral cats - it is basically sausages made of minced kangaroo meat, chicken
fat, flavour enhancers (MSG???) and 1080. They are calling it "Eradicat"
and have had 70% to 80% success in trials. The article went on say they are
working on a different bait for the Eastern states called "Curiosity" as our
wildlife over here hasn't evolved with the Poison Peas - Gompholobium sps.
that 1080 is developed from and non target species may be poisoned or
secondary poisoned using Eradicat.
Neil Macumber
Manager
Birdswing Birding & Wildlife Tours
C/- PO
POMONAL VIC 3381
Mob. 0413 628 306
www.birdingwildlifetours.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
Sent: Saturday, 21 February 2015 4:00 AM
To:
Subject: Birding-Aus Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18
Send Birding-Aus mailing list submissions to
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than "Re: Contents of Birding-Aus digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Feral Cat Problem (Denise Goodfellow)
2. Feral cats (David Clark)
3. Re: Feral cats (Denise Goodfellow)
4. Feral Cats (calyptorhynchus .)
5. Coconut on my Rainbow (Julian Bielewicz)
6. Re: Cyclone Marcia (Hannah)
7. Re: Coconut on my Rainbow (Mike Carter)
8. Backyard Goshawk, Ivanhoe (brian fleming)
9. The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night Parrot
(Carl Clifford)
10. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
Parrot (Dave Torr)
11. The depth some twichers will go to tick Night Parrots
(Barney Enders)
12. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
Parrot (Richard NOWOTNY)
13. Forwarding some abstracts about feral cat research from CSIRO
Wildlife Research Volume 41(5) (Philip Veerman)
14. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
Parrot (Peter Shute)
15. feral cats (Stephen)
16. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
Parrot (Carl Clifford)
17. Re: feral cats (Carl Clifford)
18. Night Parrot - tickers and listers (brian fleming)
19. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
Parrot (Michael Tarburton)
20. FW: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (Tony Russell)
21. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
Parrot (Denise Goodfellow)
22. Re: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (Denise Goodfellow)
23. Night Parrot the ultimate tick (Tony Clarke)
24. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
Parrot (Laurie Knight)
25. Re: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (Stephen Murray)
26. Re: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (Experience the Wild)
27. Possible Pectoral Sandpiper - Sydney Olympic Park (& some
other stuff) (Thomas Wilson)
28. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
Parrot (Andrew Bell)
29. Re: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (David Stowe)
30. Zoo Australia (Charles)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 02:12:13 +0930
From: Denise Goodfellow <>
To: David Clark <>
Cc: birding-aus <>, Ian Boyd
<>
Subject: Feral Cat Problem
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
I?m not sure about Queensland, but the biggest threat to biodiversity in the
Top End by far, are weeds and an inappropriate fire regime. They remove
understorey and midstorey leaving wildlife nowhere to hide. Then, at least
in Kakadu (and probably elsewhere) the cats clean up.
Sure the toads have caused some local extinctions, but their impact is
minimal compared to the devastation being wrought by these weeds. All were
brought in either to feed cattle or as contaminants.
Denise
On 19 Feb 2015, at 3:53 pm, David Clark <> wrote:
> Good point Ian, feral cats have an extremely wide range of prey species
and
> I'm not sure that the Night Parrot is more important than other
> endangered/vulnerable species.
>
> Of course, it could be argued that Cane Toads are doing more to reduce
> biodiversity than feral cats and, while I think it is important to tackle
> the cat menace, it shouldn't be at the expense of tackling the toad
menace.
>
> You're right though, as a group we should be working on getting something
> done about cats, toads, foxes, and all the other issues that are
> threatening biodiversity.
>
> Cheers
>
> David
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Ian Boyd <> wrote:
>
>> It is a pity that it takes the slaughter of a Night Parrot by a feral cat
>> to get some people up in in arms baying for action.
>>
>> Whether it is the death of Night Parrot or a Peaceful Dove, I feel it is
>> well passed time that a concerted effort by the birding world be made to
>> kick the ?powers to be? into action re the out of control feral cat
>> problem. Hopefully, some of the vocal deep thinkers out there could guide
>> us ordinary every birders into ways we can establish some positive
action.
>> Postings on Birding-Aus and blogs etc would not even cause a ripple. What
>> can we do and how can we do it. Rather than rhetoric, let?s be pro-active
>> and get something moving before it is too late; not only for the Night
>> Parrot but for those little beauties that frequent my backyard.
>>
>> Ian Boyd
>> Townsville
>> <HR>
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>> <BR>
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>> </HR>
>>
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> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:33:25 +1100
From: David Clark <>
To:
Subject: Feral cats
Message-ID:
<CALdqC2CnF=>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Minister Hunt
I assume that you are aware of the discovery of Night Parrot remains that
indicate predation by a feral cat. While this loss of one of a newly
discovered population of Night Parrots is potentially catastrophic, it
serves to highlight the threat to Australian avifauna and smaller mammals,
reptiles and amphibians posed by the uncontrolled feral cat population.
It is well past time for the Federal Government to take the lead in
establishing programs to eliminate or, at least, dramatically reduce the
feral cat population and ensure that domestic cats are controlled and not
able to reinforce the feral population.
I would expect the Federal Government to also take a lead role in
controlling Cane Toads, Foxes, Rabbits, European Carp and pest plants,
particularly those such as Gamba Grass that have the potential to
significantly reduce biodiversity.
I look forward to hearing how the Federal Government intends to tackle the
feral cat problem and other threats to our biodiversity.
Regards
David Clark
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 05:41:46 +0930
From: Denise Goodfellow <>
To: David Clark <>
Cc:
Subject: Feral cats
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Well done, David.
Denise
Denise Goodfellow
On 19 Feb 2015, at 9:03 pm, David Clark <> wrote:
> Minister Hunt
>
> I assume that you are aware of the discovery of Night Parrot remains that
> indicate predation by a feral cat. While this loss of one of a newly
> discovered population of Night Parrots is potentially catastrophic, it
> serves to highlight the threat to Australian avifauna and smaller mammals,
> reptiles and amphibians posed by the uncontrolled feral cat population.
>
> It is well past time for the Federal Government to take the lead in
> establishing programs to eliminate or, at least, dramatically reduce the
> feral cat population and ensure that domestic cats are controlled and not
> able to reinforce the feral population.
>
> I would expect the Federal Government to also take a lead role in
> controlling Cane Toads, Foxes, Rabbits, European Carp and pest plants,
> particularly those such as Gamba Grass that have the potential to
> significantly reduce biodiversity.
>
> I look forward to hearing how the Federal Government intends to tackle the
> feral cat problem and other threats to our biodiversity.
>
> Regards
>
> David Clark
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:46:25 +1100
From: "calyptorhynchus ." <>
To: "" <>
Subject: Feral Cats
Message-ID:
<CAO5cx3zxNQuDYtKAzDvK88isDHUTmjmsw5Xg6JBUG-F6Arc9=>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I think we all agree that Feral Cats are an enormous problem, especially in
desert areas, and will lead to the extinction of various species of birds,
mammals and reptiles in the short and medium terms unless something is done.
However, while governments across Australia (whether Liberal or Labor)
continue to be inflected with the neo-liberal ideology of
governments-should-do-nothing-the-only-important-thing-is-to-have-a-budget-s
urplus
then I suggest that it is unlikely that anything will get done. Perhaps as
well as writing to our MPs and the Minister we should also start to contest
the notion that governments should do nothing as well in as many contexts
as we can.
--
John Leonard
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 08:55:05 +1000
From: "Julian Bielewicz" <>
To: "Aus Birding" <>
Subject: Coconut on my Rainbow
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Greetings Folks
While updating a number of birdlists for my website
[www.birdingsouthburnett.com] I came across the Coconut Lorikeet. It
appears to be conflicting with Rainbow Lorikeet.
The problem also exists in my computer bird journal program but I am
addressing that issue elsewhere.
It appears that only the IOC makes specific reference to the Coconut as a
separate species:
Coconut haematodus
Rainbow moluccanus
Clements has the Coconut as a ?group? within the Rainbow complex:
Trichoglossus haematodus [haematodus Group] Rainbow Lorikeet (Coconut)
Other consulted authorities [e.g. Lynx, Avibase, etc.] basically concur with
Clements.
Which brings me to the recently released BARC list:
Trichoglossus moluccanus Coconut
Trichoglossus moluccanus Rainbow
Am I to take this as indicating that ?Coconut? is merely an alternative name
for ?Rainbow?; or is it considered a subspecies; or that the two having
identical scientific names is a mere oversight, a ?typo??
I would be grateful for any and all assistance in fathoming out how my
Rainbows got onto the coconut shy.
Cheers
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 09:41:47 +1000
From: Hannah <>
To: Denise Goodfellow <>
Cc: birding-aus <>
Subject: Cyclone Marcia
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
It was an absolute privilege last weekend to spend time with Bob at his
property north of Yeppoon watching Buff-Breasted Paradise-Kingfishers. I
fear the worst for their hillside rainforest community, it will probably
take days to clear the track out.
As we brace in Gladstone, it won't be anything like what Yeppoon and Rocky
are about to cop. Wishing you all the best, stay safe.
Hannah
> On 19 Feb 2015, at 8:51 pm, Denise Goodfellow <>
wrote:
>
> To all those in the path of Cyclone Marcia, my thoughts are with you.
>
> Take care.
>
> Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow
> PO Box 71
> Darwin River, NT, Australia 0841
>
> PhD candidate, Southern Cross University, Lismore, NSW.
>
> Founding Member: Ecotourism Australia
> Nominated by Earthfoot for Cond? Nast?s International Ecotourism Award,
2004.
> 043 8650 835
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
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> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 11:23:14 +1100
From: "Mike Carter" <>
To: "'Julian Bielewicz'" <>, "'Aus Birding'"
<>
Cc: David James <>
Subject: Coconut on my Rainbow
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I'm sure this is a typo in the BARC checklist. Coconut Lorikeet is T.
haematodus.
Mike Carter, 03 9787 7136
30 Canadian Bay Road
Mount Eliza, VIC 3930, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
Julian Bielewicz
Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 9:55 AM
To: Aus Birding
Subject: Coconut on my Rainbow
Greetings Folks
While updating a number of birdlists for my website
[www.birdingsouthburnett.com] I came across the Coconut Lorikeet. It
appears to be conflicting with Rainbow Lorikeet.
The problem also exists in my computer bird journal program but I am
addressing that issue elsewhere.
It appears that only the IOC makes specific reference to the Coconut as a
separate species:
Coconut haematodus
Rainbow moluccanus
Clements has the Coconut as a ?group? within the Rainbow complex:
Trichoglossus haematodus [haematodus Group] Rainbow Lorikeet (Coconut)
Other consulted authorities [e.g. Lynx, Avibase, etc.] basically concur with
Clements.
Which brings me to the recently released BARC list:
Trichoglossus moluccanus Coconut
Trichoglossus moluccanus Rainbow
Am I to take this as indicating that ?Coconut? is merely an alternative name
for ?Rainbow?; or is it considered a subspecies; or that the two having
identical scientific names is a mere oversight, a ?typo??
I would be grateful for any and all assistance in fathoming out how my
Rainbows got onto the coconut shy.
Cheers
<HR>
<BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
<BR>
<BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
<BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
</HR>
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:06:10 +1100
From: brian fleming <>
To:
Subject: Backyard Goshawk, Ivanhoe
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Major surprise during a late breakfast- 9.45 am - looked out and saw a
large bird on the back steps behind the house, just below our
bird-bath. Lots of splashy dark brown markings - a juvenile Brown
Goshawk. Eyebrows and heavy legs clearly seen, tail out of sight behind
it. It stayed there for a minute or so, then took off and flew through
the garden. When I got out with the camera, it was perched in our
neighbour's big Sugar Gum, but again it took flight when I raised the
camera. Its movements around nearby gardens could be traced by numerous
alarm-calls.
Brown Goshawks were regular visitors in the 1970s but in recent years
they have not been seen very often.
Our house is above Darebin Creek - major local bird-route.
Anthea Fleming
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:54:02 +1100
From: Carl Clifford <>
To: ""
<>
Subject: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the
Night Parrot
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find very
disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I were
to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off BA for
life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for retrospective
sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
Hi Carl,
I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments ?Cloud
Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of space
? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird for
his list at all costs and cost was the word.
He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other end
so people could see them if lit when in position.
If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping some
of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well done.
My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
Kind regards
John Young
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 13:08:13 +1100
From: Dave Torr <>
To: Carl Clifford <>
Cc: ""
<>
Subject: The depths some twitchers will go to tick
the Night Parrot
Message-ID:
<CAMQyua8h_Ut=>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Well - I guess if we hear of a mysterious fire and someone's life list goes
up by one will have a good suspect!
On 20 February 2015 at 12:54, Carl Clifford <> wrote:
> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find very
> disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
> setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he
could
> tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not
adequate
> enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I
> were to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off
> BA for life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for
> retrospective sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs
email:
>
>
> Hi Carl,
> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
> ?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
> space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
> for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
> end so people could see them if lit when in position.
> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>
> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>
> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
> feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping some
> of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>
> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
> done.
> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
> Kind regards
> John Young
>
>
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:36:59 +1000
From: "Barney Enders" <>
To: <>
Subject: The depth some twichers will go to tick Night
Parrots
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
They certainly walk amongst us, I have on several occasions had run in with
them especially when sitting quietly waiting with the camera for a good shot
and they walk in front of you and ask in a loud voice, "What is it"
I remember sitting quietly on the water hole at Mungerannie Pub up the
Birdsville Track one evening with a group of International Birdies and we
heard what
sounded like rifle shots and all the birds took off flying never to be seen
again and this guy appeared cracking a whip, when asked what did he think he
was doing
he replied "It is easier to see them when they are flying. " Hello any
one home"
Did he learn his pedigree very quickly.
Fortunately these are few and far between and what John has described is a
hanging offence.
"Better to sit and watch than to tick and walk"
Barney
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:47:58 +1000
From: Richard NOWOTNY <>
To: Carl Clifford <>
Cc: ""
<>
Subject: The depths some twitchers will go to tick
the Night Parrot
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be thoughtful,
considered and temperate in our language when we post messages on a public
forum such as Birding-Aus.
I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
thoughts/comments on his post.
1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email to the
list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this way
(and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no opportunity
to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about this.)
3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might do
something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding that
this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration, rather than
say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly misinterpreted in a
sensitive and volatile setting).
I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist, and of
course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading (or
listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
And surely that's enough on this matter.
Regards. Richard
> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
wrote:
>
> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find very
disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I were
to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off BA for
life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for retrospective
sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>
>
> Hi Carl,
> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
end so people could see them if lit when in position.
> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>
> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>
> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping some
of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>
> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
done.
> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
> Kind regards
> John Young
>
>
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:22:20 +1100
From: "Philip Veerman" <>
To: "'birding-aus'" <>
Subject: Forwarding some abstracts about feral cat
research from CSIRO Wildlife Research Volume 41(5)
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have no connection with this, other than getting the contents list on an
email........ I have copied the extracts of two of the articles here:
Welcome to the latest e-alert for Wildlife Research. This issue includes
articles about a diverse range of topics, including: meadow vole
populations; behaviour of birds in habitats invaded by buffel grass;
invasive stoat populations; effects of culling feral cats; light pollution
and flatback turtle hatchlings; habitat use by feral cats; using
mark-resight to monitor Canada geese; and the diet of frugivorous bats.
To view articles that have been published Online Early before they have been
collated into an issue, visit the Journal's website. Alternatively,
subscribe to its RSS feed to be alerted when new articles are published.
Effects of low-level culling of feral cats in open populations: a case study
from the forests of southern Tasmania
Billie T. Lazenby, Nicholas J. Mooney and Christopher R. Dickman
Feral cats threaten biodiversity, and are often culled to reduce their
impact. The effectiveness of culling is largely unknown in areas where new
cats can replace those removed, but by using remote camera technology to
identify individuals, we found that low-level culling resulted in an
increase in cat numbers and activity. This unexpected result demonstrates
the importance of monitoring management actions, and the need for strategic,
systematic, and ongoing commitment to managing feral cats if their impact on
biodiversity is to be reduced.
A critical review of habitat use by feral cats and key directions for future
research and management
Tim S. Doherty, Andrew J. Bengsen and Robert A. Davis
Feral cats have a wide global distribution and are a serious threat to
biodiversity; an understanding of their habitat use is essential to reducing
their impacts. Our review shows that current knowledge of the factors
influencing cat habitat use is poor. Future studies will benefit from
employing an experimental approach and collecting data on the relative
abundance and activity of prey and other predators. Local knowledge and
active monitoring is essential when deciding on control programs.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:19:20 +1100
From: Peter Shute <>
To: 'Richard NOWOTNY' <>, 'Carl Clifford'
<>
Cc: ""
<>
Subject: The depths some twitchers will go to tick
the Night Parrot
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm hoping this is the situation, and that they weren't serious. I can't
believe anyone would be dumb enough to suggest that John get involved in
burning them out, even if they were prepared to do that themself.
I doesn't seem very practical anyway, given that you'd get a fleeting
glimpse at best, if you could see it in the smoke.
Peter Shute
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Birding-Aus
> On Behalf Of
> Richard NOWOTNY
> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 1:48 PM
> To: Carl Clifford
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go
> to tick the Night Parrot
>
> 3. John states that the supposed
> miscreant "implied" that a fire might do something. I would
> like to have the actual statement before concluding that this
> was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration,
> rather than say a careless or even whimsical comment
> (possibly misinterpreted in a sensitive and volatile setting).
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:49:14 +1100
From: "Stephen" <>
To: <>
Subject: feral cats
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The loss of a Night Parrot to a feral cat is sad and dismaying, especially
as it is merely a known case among other unknowns, presumably.
The unfortunate truth is that feral cats are now part of Australia's fauna,
along with foxes, cane toads etc. Despite many calls here for governments to
do something, nothing can be done. Cats, like rabbits, are rapid breeders,
and their biggest enemies are other cats eager for a vacant territory and
food supply. Remove a cat, and you create a space for a grown kitten that
otherwise might starve, as most young of most species do.
To permanently affect a local population of cats there would need to be
constant efforts of eradication, and even that would merely keep numbers
low. That effort across a continent is impossible.
A potential answer may be a genetically engineered virus for cats, both
deadly and virulent. Were such developed, it could not be used lest it
escape Australia to destroy native cats of all types in the old world.
Cats and foxes are an undoubted threat to birds and other native animals,
but the greater threat probably is habitat loss through clearing, grazing,
weeds, fire-regimes etc, etc.
I don't have an answer; I just have a fear for these vulnerable species.
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:01:18 +1100
From: Carl Clifford <>
To: Richard NOWOTNY <>
Cc: ""
<>
Subject: The depths some twitchers will go to tick
the Night Parrot
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
1. I not only have John's permission but encouragement to forward this email
which he sent to me this morning.
2. It is not hearsay, the forwarded email is John's word written in his own
hand detailing what he heard and saw.
3. The accused person has the opportunity to state his/her case on
Birding-aus. Indeed, I look forward to their side of the story
4. It is up to the list members and/or moderators to decide when it is
"enough on this matter", not one individual.
As for intemperate language, what I wrote is a greatly modified version of
what I feel towards a person who would use such tactics as described by
John, just to tick a bird.
Carl Clifford
> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:47 pm, Richard NOWOTNY <> wrote:
>
> I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be thoughtful,
considered and temperate in our language when we post messages on a public
forum such as Birding-Aus.
> I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
thoughts/comments on his post.
> 1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email to
the list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this way
(and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
> 2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no opportunity
to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about this.)
> 3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might do
something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding that
this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration, rather than
say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly misinterpreted in a
sensitive and volatile setting).
> I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist, and
of course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading (or
listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
> And surely that's enough on this matter.
> Regards. Richard
>
>
>
>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
wrote:
>>
>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I were
to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off BA for
life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for retrospective
sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>
>>
>> Hi Carl,
>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>
>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>
>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping some
of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>
>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
done.
>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>> Kind regards
>> John Young
>>
>>
>>
>> <HR>
>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>> <BR>
>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:04:13 +1100
From: Carl Clifford <>
To: Stephen <>
Cc: "<>" <>
Subject: feral cats
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The best type of virus, would be one that causes sterility in males.
Carl Clifford
> On 20 Feb 2015, at 2:49 pm, Stephen <> wrote:
>
> The loss of a Night Parrot to a feral cat is sad and dismaying, especially
> as it is merely a known case among other unknowns, presumably.
>
> The unfortunate truth is that feral cats are now part of Australia's
fauna,
> along with foxes, cane toads etc. Despite many calls here for governments
to
> do something, nothing can be done. Cats, like rabbits, are rapid breeders,
> and their biggest enemies are other cats eager for a vacant territory and
> food supply. Remove a cat, and you create a space for a grown kitten that
> otherwise might starve, as most young of most species do.
>
> To permanently affect a local population of cats there would need to be
> constant efforts of eradication, and even that would merely keep numbers
> low. That effort across a continent is impossible.
>
> A potential answer may be a genetically engineered virus for cats, both
> deadly and virulent. Were such developed, it could not be used lest it
> escape Australia to destroy native cats of all types in the old world.
>
> Cats and foxes are an undoubted threat to birds and other native animals,
> but the greater threat probably is habitat loss through clearing, grazing,
> weeds, fire-regimes etc, etc.
>
> I don't have an answer; I just have a fear for these vulnerable species.
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:53:32 +1100
From: brian fleming <>
To:
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and
see one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in
Cape York and the Kimberley.
But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him
a chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing
on indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few
years ago.
My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking
species and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into
studying the life-histories of even common birds, we would know very
much more than we do.
Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird
distribution and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great
deal of fun for those energetic enough to do it - so has digital
photography. But first and foremost, please let us consider the birds.
Anthea Fleming
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:14:58 +1100
From: Michael Tarburton <>
To: Carl Clifford <>
Cc: ""
<>
Subject: The depths some twitchers will go to tick
the Night Parrot
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
format=flowed
G'day All
Some people! Could I suggest that the ecotraps made in Melbourne are
a very good way to catch cats and dogs. I used them in the bird
sanctuary in PNG, better known as Pacific Adventist University. 50%
of cats (from some old research I read) will not go into cage type
traps, but this trap does not look like a trap at all, even to a cat
or dog. It has a 1.5m zip on the narrow end so that if it is a Bilby
or other native animal you have caught, you can easily release it.
Some nights I sat nearby and watched it work. Highly recommended -
though a tad expensive.
Cheers
Mike
===================
Michael Tarburton
===================
On 20/02/2015, at 12:54 PM, Carl Clifford wrote:
> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I
> find very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher
> could suggest setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex
> country, just so he could tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable.
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:20:27 +1030
From: "Tony Russell" <>
To: "'birding-aus'" <>
Subject: FW: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Russell
Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 4:18 PM
To: 'brian fleming'
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
Yes, ticking is a strange occupation, a bit like collecting train or bus
numbers ( which I used to do when I was a kid). Of course it does very
little towards conservation, and in fact there have been many comments from
"real" conservationists ( however defined) regarding the contempt in which
they hold twitchers. The twitching compulsion is however very powerful,
similar to heroin or crystal meth. or even pot I guess, not that I have ever
been foolish enough to try any of these.
I've been twitching now since 1991 and have experienced the excitement and
satisfaction of getting new birds over and over again, the feeling never
diminishes. The anticipation has made me travel all over this great southern
land, covering many thousands of kilometres and costing sometimes inordinate
amounts of money, and, incidentally, helping the tourism industry along the
way. I've nevr ever thought of lighting fires though.
On reflection, it's hard to explain. But it's been thoroughly enjoyable and
I've made lots of friends. Tony.
-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
brian fleming
Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 3:24 PM
To:
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and see
one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in Cape
York and the Kimberley.
But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few years
ago.
My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking species
and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying the
life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than we
do.
Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird distribution
and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great deal of fun for
those energetic enough to do it - so has digital photography. But first and
foremost, please let us consider the birds.
Anthea Fleming
<HR>
<BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
<BR>
<BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
<BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
</HR>
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:03:27 +0930
From: Denise Goodfellow <>
To: Carl Clifford <>
Cc: Richard NOWOTNY <>, birding-aus
<>
Subject: The depths some twitchers will go to tick
the Night Parrot
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Having guided birders for 30 + years, I?ve some idea what mad keen birders
are capable of. And knowing John (and Carl), I don?t doubt at all what Carl
wrote.
Denise Goodfellow
On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:31 pm, Carl Clifford <> wrote:
> 1. I not only have John's permission but encouragement to forward this
email which he sent to me this morning.
>
> 2. It is not hearsay, the forwarded email is John's word written in his
own hand detailing what he heard and saw.
>
> 3. The accused person has the opportunity to state his/her case on
Birding-aus. Indeed, I look forward to their side of the story
>
> 4. It is up to the list members and/or moderators to decide when it is
"enough on this matter", not one individual.
>
> As for intemperate language, what I wrote is a greatly modified version of
what I feel towards a person who would use such tactics as described by
John, just to tick a bird.
>
> Carl Clifford
>
>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:47 pm, Richard NOWOTNY <>
wrote:
>>
>> I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be thoughtful,
considered and temperate in our language when we post messages on a public
forum such as Birding-Aus.
>> I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
thoughts/comments on his post.
>> 1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email to
the list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this way
(and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
>> 2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no opportunity
to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about this.)
>> 3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might do
something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding that
this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration, rather than
say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly misinterpreted in a
sensitive and volatile setting).
>> I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist, and
of course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading (or
listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
>> And surely that's enough on this matter.
>> Regards. Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
wrote:
>>>
>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I were
to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off BA for
life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for retrospective
sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Carl,
>>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>>
>>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>>
>>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping some
of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>>
>>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
done.
>>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>>> Kind regards
>>> John Young
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:30:37 +0930
From: Denise Goodfellow <>
To: Brian Fleming <>
Cc: birding-aus <>
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dear Anthea
I am all the way with you on this one.
Denise Goodfellow
On 20 Feb 2015, at 2:23 pm, brian fleming <> wrote:
> I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
> I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and
see one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in Cape
York and the Kimberley.
> But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few years
ago.
> My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking
species and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying
the life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than
we do.
> Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird
distribution and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great deal
of fun for those energetic enough to do it - so has digital photography. But
first and foremost, please let us consider the birds.
>
> Anthea Fleming
>
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:55:14 +0000
From: Tony Clarke <>
To: "' ' "
<>
Subject: Night Parrot the ultimate tick
Message-ID:
<>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Dear All
I have been twitching now for something like 40 years and have done my fair
share of crazy things in pursuit of birds but this is beyond belief. If the
person was serious then they should be named and shamed, black listed by all
the bird tour companies, put in front of a court and tried for criminal
intent. Let's sentence him to being hung, drawn and quartered at the British
Bird Fair.
?
Tony Clarke,
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:58:53 +1000
From: Laurie Knight <>
To: Birding Aus <>
Subject: The depths some twitchers will go to tick
the Night Parrot
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
I?m not sure what the fuss is about. From the limited context in Carl?s
original post, I presume John was referring to a conversation he had with a
birdwatcher - possibly at one of his lectures - where the use of fire was
mentioned as a hypothetical means to see a bird. I don?t believe that John
is in the habit of taking people to Night Parrot locations, so there was no
likelihood of a night parrot actually being disturbed.
It is not unknown for birdwatchers to beat the ground to flush out birds,
and I think that beating or selective spinifex lighting was a technique used
to see Night Parrots back in the nineteenth century. Actually, I think many
observations came from horse riders who saw birds flushed by their mounts.
The bottom line is there are many people who don?t care about the welfare of
the birds they see. All we can do is educate people ...
As for John?s comments about governments, I would remind you that there have
been many successful government programs to conserve birds in places like
Macquarie Island, Lord Howe Island, Norfolk Island and in New Zealand.
There is a place for both public and private sector conservation efforts.
Regards, Laurie.
On 20 Feb 2015, at 2:01 pm, Carl Clifford <> wrote:
> 1. I not only have John's permission but encouragement to forward this
email which he sent to me this morning.
>
> 2. It is not hearsay, the forwarded email is John's word written in his
own hand detailing what he heard and saw.
>
> 3. The accused person has the opportunity to state his/her case on
Birding-aus. Indeed, I look forward to their side of the story
>
> 4. It is up to the list members and/or moderators to decide when it is
"enough on this matter", not one individual.
>
> As for intemperate language, what I wrote is a greatly modified version of
what I feel towards a person who would use such tactics as described by
John, just to tick a bird.
>
> Carl Clifford
>
>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:47 pm, Richard NOWOTNY <>
wrote:
>>
>> I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be thoughtful,
considered and temperate in our language when we post messages on a public
forum such as Birding-Aus.
>> I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
thoughts/comments on his post.
>> 1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email to
the list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this way
(and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
>> 2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no opportunity
to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about this.)
>> 3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might do
something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding that
this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration, rather than
say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly misinterpreted in a
sensitive and volatile setting).
>> I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist, and
of course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading (or
listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
>> And surely that's enough on this matter.
>> Regards. Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
wrote:
>>>
>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I were
to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off BA for
life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for retrospective
sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Carl,
>>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>>
>>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>>
>>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping some
of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>>
>>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
done.
>>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>>> Kind regards
>>> John Young
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 18:08:37 +1000
From: Stephen Murray <>
To: "'brian fleming'" <>,
<>
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm sorry, but I take exception to people setting themselves up as arbiters
on what is a worthwhile pastime and what isn't. To me, birdwatching is a
hobby, pure and simple: I collect photographs and I enjoy playing around
with lists and accumulating sightings. I am not an ornithologist and have no
desire to become one. Therefore, I feel it is someone else's vocation to
contribute to the body of knowledge about birds. I personally know some
plane spotters, and, whilst I find it hard to relate to their excitement, I
would never disparage or denigrate what they do. Some people on this list
have a condescending attitude to twitchers and listers and are only too
pleased when something like this fire story comes along so that they can tar
everyone with the same brush. How many twitchers do you think would set a
fire to flush birds out? Don't forget, that listers choose to list birds
rather than planes or trains or rocks. In most cases it's because they
actually like birds and wouldn't harm them for the world.
Steve Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
brian fleming
Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 2:54 PM
To:
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and see
one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in Cape
York and the Kimberley.
But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few years
ago.
My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking species
and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying the
life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than we
do.
Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird distribution
and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great deal of fun for
those energetic enough to do it - so has digital photography. But first and
foremost, please let us consider the birds.
Anthea Fleming
<HR>
<BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
<BR>
<BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
<BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
</HR>
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 18:04:07 +0930
From: "Experience the Wild" <>
To: "'Stephen Murray'" <>
Cc:
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Steve,
You have a good point and it is good to be reminded of the fact that there
is a biodiversity of bird watchers as well as birds. No-one has the right to
be judgemental when it comes to another person's priorities when it comes to
birding. I have only very rarely come across birders/twitchers who seem to
be more concerned about getting the tick than the welfare of the bird,
(usually when it comes to what I would consider inappropriate use of
playback). I accept that my opinions are not necessarily the same as
everyone else's and mutually respectful conversations on this as with other
matters relating to the birds, conservation, taxonomy, lists, tickability,
etc are interesting, enlightening and keep us checking the latest
Birding-Aus emails.
Mike Jarvis
experiencethewild.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
Stephen Murray
Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 5:39 PM
To: 'brian fleming';
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
I'm sorry, but I take exception to people setting themselves up as arbiters
on what is a worthwhile pastime and what isn't. To me, birdwatching is a
hobby, pure and simple: I collect photographs and I enjoy playing around
with lists and accumulating sightings. I am not an ornithologist and have no
desire to become one. Therefore, I feel it is someone else's vocation to
contribute to the body of knowledge about birds. I personally know some
plane spotters, and, whilst I find it hard to relate to their excitement, I
would never disparage or denigrate what they do. Some people on this list
have a condescending attitude to twitchers and listers and are only too
pleased when something like this fire story comes along so that they can tar
everyone with the same brush. How many twitchers do you think would set a
fire to flush birds out? Don't forget, that listers choose to list birds
rather than planes or trains or rocks. In most cases it's because they
actually like birds and wouldn't harm them for the world.
Steve Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
brian fleming
Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 2:54 PM
To:
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and see
one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in Cape
York and the Kimberley.
But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few years
ago.
My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking species
and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying the
life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than we
do.
Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird distribution
and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great deal of fun for
those energetic enough to do it - so has digital photography. But first and
foremost, please let us consider the birds.
Anthea Fleming
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------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 20:32:25 +1100
From: Thomas Wilson <>
To: birding aus <>
Subject: Possible Pectoral Sandpiper - Sydney Olympic
Park (& some other stuff)
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi all
I had a very ad hoc/unplanned trip to Sydney Olympic Park this morning (20
Feb). At the waterbird refuge there was a single possible Pectoral Sandpiper
that would be worth checking out. It was seen working in and out of the
samphire near the water's edge about 50m to the right of the hide. Views
from the hide were restricted to head only and it was best seen when looking
back across the front of the hide (a long way) from the path. Distinctive
feature was a very white belly with heavily marked breast and very distinct
cut off between the two, which was what made me think Pectoral. Legs
yellowish. A pale supercilium extended well beyond the eye and crown had no
trace of chestnut. When it stood straight, it looked "tall". No Sharpies on
site for a size comparison and no pics possible unfortunately (too far away
and camera battery discovered to be flat - that's what happens with ad hoc
trips...). I have also reported this in the NSW/ACT Birders Facebook site
and I think there may be others heading out tomorrow to check it out (hoping
it's still there).
Also at the hide was a small covey of Brown Quail (saw 1, reckon 6 based on
locations of calls) in the long grass/scrub just to the right when looking
out of the hide. I didn't try to count the Red-necked Avocets but a good
number of them and several busy groups of Black-fronted Dotterels too. There
have been 3 Australasian Shovelers reported recently, but I could not find
them.
At nearby Mason Park, there were about 40 Sharpies (although they flew off
and headed away before I could count properly). The flew off up the canal,
so may have been heading for a site on Parramatta River or somewhere like
that? There is a lone Pink-eared Duck at that site too.
Cheers
Tom Wilson
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 19:24:10 +0930
From: Andrew Bell <>
To: Carl Clifford <>
Cc: Richard NOWOTNY <>,
"" <>
Subject: The depths some twitchers will go to tick
the Night Parrot
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Sounds to me like a birder brought up on a diet of Monty Python with tongue
pressed firmly in the cheek. (One birder I could imagine making such a quip
is Bill Oddie, and I wouldn't put it past Jeremy Clarkson dropping a line
like that either).
Cheers, and remind me never to make such a twisted remark, even in jest...
Andrew Bell
> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:31 pm, Carl Clifford <> wrote:
>
> 1. I not only have John's permission but encouragement to forward this
email which he sent to me this morning.
>
> 2. It is not hearsay, the forwarded email is John's word written in his
own hand detailing what he heard and saw.
>
> 3. The accused person has the opportunity to state his/her case on
Birding-aus. Indeed, I look forward to their side of the story
>
> 4. It is up to the list members and/or moderators to decide when it is
"enough on this matter", not one individual.
>
> As for intemperate language, what I wrote is a greatly modified version of
what I feel towards a person who would use such tactics as described by
John, just to tick a bird.
>
> Carl Clifford
>
>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:47 pm, Richard NOWOTNY <>
wrote:
>>
>> I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be thoughtful,
considered and temperate in our language when we post messages on a public
forum such as Birding-Aus.
>> I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
thoughts/comments on his post.
>> 1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email to
the list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this way
(and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
>> 2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no opportunity
to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about this.)
>> 3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might do
something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding that
this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration, rather than
say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly misinterpreted in a
sensitive and volatile setting).
>> I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist, and
of course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading (or
listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
>> And surely that's enough on this matter.
>> Regards. Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
wrote:
>>>
>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I were
to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off BA for
life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for retrospective
sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Carl,
>>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>>
>>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>>
>>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping some
of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>>
>>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
done.
>>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>>> Kind regards
>>> John Young
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 21:39:25 +1100
From: David Stowe <>
To: Stephen Murray <>
Cc:
Subject: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Couldn?t agree more Steve.
I?ll also never be an ornithologist and whilst i try to help out
conservation where i can, I don?t think anyone should have to justify the
fact that they simply enjoy birdwatching in whatever form gives them the
most personal pleasure. Does no-one else have hobbies or ways to relax that
don?t actually have a higher purpose? Do we judge people for reading the
newspaper?
I?ve personally been with birders who have made jokes about flushing things
with fire etc - but it has certainly always been tongue in cheek for sure!
Yes if someone made the comment seriously it is terrible indeed - but lets
put away the pitch forks for a bit eh?
Cheers
Dave
> On 20 Feb 2015, at 7:08 pm, Stephen Murray <> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, but I take exception to people setting themselves up as
arbiters
> on what is a worthwhile pastime and what isn't. To me, birdwatching is a
> hobby, pure and simple: I collect photographs and I enjoy playing around
> with lists and accumulating sightings. I am not an ornithologist and have
no
> desire to become one. Therefore, I feel it is someone else's vocation to
> contribute to the body of knowledge about birds. I personally know some
> plane spotters, and, whilst I find it hard to relate to their excitement,
I
> would never disparage or denigrate what they do. Some people on this list
> have a condescending attitude to twitchers and listers and are only too
> pleased when something like this fire story comes along so that they can
tar
> everyone with the same brush. How many twitchers do you think would set
a
> fire to flush birds out? Don't forget, that listers choose to list birds
> rather than planes or trains or rocks. In most cases it's because they
> actually like birds and wouldn't harm them for the world.
> Steve Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Birding-Aus On Behalf
Of
> brian fleming
> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 2:54 PM
> To:
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>
> I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
> I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and
see
> one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in Cape
> York and the Kimberley.
> But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
> seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
> chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
> indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few years
> ago.
> My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking
species
> and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying the
> life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than we
> do.
> Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird
distribution
> and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great deal of fun for
> those energetic enough to do it - so has digital photography. But first
and
> foremost, please let us consider the birds.
>
> Anthea Fleming
>
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
>
>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 22:29:06 +1100
From: Charles <>
To: "<>" <>
Subject: Zoo Australia
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
An interesting take on "fencing" to protect wildlife.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-20/phillips-predator-proof-fences/6162
484
Cheers,
Charles Hunter
+61 402 907 577
------------------------------
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End of Birding-Aus Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18
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