I agree. Getting a coordinated feral cat control would be like herding cats.
Carl Clifford
> On 21 Feb 2015, at 10:04 am, Julie Lake <> wrote:
>
> FERAL CATS
>
> There is little point agitating for the destruction of feral cats - to make
> a vdery bad pun: that cat is already long out of the bag. Nobody but a
> prescient few of us true nature-lovers and ecological scientists really care
> 2. It would take a concerted effort at both federal AND state AND local
> government levels - impossible to co-ordinate
> 3. There are already so many millions of cats out there, in every kind of
> habitat except (possibly) the high peaks of the Australian Alps that to
> cull by shooting, baiting or any other direct kill method is just not
> possible.
>
> The only way we could rid ourselves of this dreadful pest is to use the
> same sort of biological control as used with rabbits - with all the dangers
> that come with this method (assuming that such a control could be found -
> and funded). And, at the same time, ban the keeping of cats as domestic
> pets throughout Australia. Sterilisation just isn't good enough - people
> ignore the regulation and it's amazing how many litters of kittens a couple
> of no-sterilised cats can produce.
>
> Perhaps, using a combination of methods, we could significantly reduce
> feral cat numbers - but I doubt it.
>
> I believe this particular pest has already had a significantly adverse
> affect on our bird populations, as well as on populations of small mammals
> and reptiles. It will continue to do so. We can only hope that at least
> some of the more vulnerable bird species will be able to evolve
> defence/evasion strategies before they are driven to extinction.
>
> Julie Lake
> Tamborine Mountain
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 3:00 AM, <>
> wrote:
>
>> Send Birding-Aus mailing list submissions to
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>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Feral Cat Problem (Denise Goodfellow)
>> 2. Feral cats (David Clark)
>> 3. Re: Feral cats (Denise Goodfellow)
>> 4. Feral Cats (calyptorhynchus .)
>> 5. Coconut on my Rainbow (Julian Bielewicz)
>> 6. Re: Cyclone Marcia (Hannah)
>> 7. Re: Coconut on my Rainbow (Mike Carter)
>> 8. Backyard Goshawk, Ivanhoe (brian fleming)
>> 9. The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night Parrot
>> (Carl Clifford)
>> 10. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
>> Parrot (Dave Torr)
>> 11. The depth some twichers will go to tick Night Parrots
>> (Barney Enders)
>> 12. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
>> Parrot (Richard NOWOTNY)
>> 13. Forwarding some abstracts about feral cat research from CSIRO
>> Wildlife Research Volume 41(5) (Philip Veerman)
>> 14. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
>> Parrot (Peter Shute)
>> 15. feral cats (Stephen)
>> 16. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
>> Parrot (Carl Clifford)
>> 17. Re: feral cats (Carl Clifford)
>> 18. Night Parrot - tickers and listers (brian fleming)
>> 19. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
>> Parrot (Michael Tarburton)
>> 20. FW: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (Tony Russell)
>> 21. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
>> Parrot (Denise Goodfellow)
>> 22. Re: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (Denise Goodfellow)
>> 23. Night Parrot the ultimate tick (Tony Clarke)
>> 24. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
>> Parrot (Laurie Knight)
>> 25. Re: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (Stephen Murray)
>> 26. Re: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (Experience the Wild)
>> 27. Possible Pectoral Sandpiper - Sydney Olympic Park (& some
>> other stuff) (Thomas Wilson)
>> 28. Re: The depths some twitchers will go to tick the Night
>> Parrot (Andrew Bell)
>> 29. Re: Night Parrot - tickers and listers (David Stowe)
>> 30. Zoo Australia (Charles)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 02:12:13 +0930
>> From: Denise Goodfellow <>
>> To: David Clark <>
>> Cc: birding-aus <>, Ian Boyd
>> <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Feral Cat Problem
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>
>> I?m not sure about Queensland, but the biggest threat to biodiversity in
>> the Top End by far, are weeds and an inappropriate fire regime. They
>> remove understorey and midstorey leaving wildlife nowhere to hide. Then,
>> at least in Kakadu (and probably elsewhere) the cats clean up.
>>
>> Sure the toads have caused some local extinctions, but their impact is
>> minimal compared to the devastation being wrought by these weeds. All were
>> brought in either to feed cattle or as contaminants.
>>
>>
>>
>> Denise
>>
>>
>>> On 19 Feb 2015, at 3:53 pm, David Clark <> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good point Ian, feral cats have an extremely wide range of prey species
>> and
>>> I'm not sure that the Night Parrot is more important than other
>>> endangered/vulnerable species.
>>>
>>> Of course, it could be argued that Cane Toads are doing more to reduce
>>> biodiversity than feral cats and, while I think it is important to tackle
>>> the cat menace, it shouldn't be at the expense of tackling the toad
>> menace.
>>>
>>> You're right though, as a group we should be working on getting something
>>> done about cats, toads, foxes, and all the other issues that are
>>> threatening biodiversity.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Ian Boyd <> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It is a pity that it takes the slaughter of a Night Parrot by a feral
>> cat
>>>> to get some people up in in arms baying for action.
>>>>
>>>> Whether it is the death of Night Parrot or a Peaceful Dove, I feel it is
>>>> well passed time that a concerted effort by the birding world be made to
>>>> kick the ?powers to be? into action re the out of control feral cat
>>>> problem. Hopefully, some of the vocal deep thinkers out there could
>> guide
>>>> us ordinary every birders into ways we can establish some positive
>> action.
>>>> Postings on Birding-Aus and blogs etc would not even cause a ripple.
>> What
>>>> can we do and how can we do it. Rather than rhetoric, let?s be
>> pro-active
>>>> and get something moving before it is too late; not only for the Night
>>>> Parrot but for those little beauties that frequent my backyard.
>>>>
>>>> Ian Boyd
>>>> Townsville
>>>> <HR>
>>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>>> <BR>
>>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>> <BR>
>> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>>> </HR>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 22:33:25 +1100
>> From: David Clark <>
>> To:
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Feral cats
>> Message-ID:
>> <CALdqC2CnF=
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Minister Hunt
>>
>> I assume that you are aware of the discovery of Night Parrot remains that
>> indicate predation by a feral cat. While this loss of one of a newly
>> discovered population of Night Parrots is potentially catastrophic, it
>> serves to highlight the threat to Australian avifauna and smaller mammals,
>> reptiles and amphibians posed by the uncontrolled feral cat population.
>>
>> It is well past time for the Federal Government to take the lead in
>> establishing programs to eliminate or, at least, dramatically reduce the
>> feral cat population and ensure that domestic cats are controlled and not
>> able to reinforce the feral population.
>>
>> I would expect the Federal Government to also take a lead role in
>> controlling Cane Toads, Foxes, Rabbits, European Carp and pest plants,
>> particularly those such as Gamba Grass that have the potential to
>> significantly reduce biodiversity.
>>
>> I look forward to hearing how the Federal Government intends to tackle the
>> feral cat problem and other threats to our biodiversity.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> David Clark
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 05:41:46 +0930
>> From: Denise Goodfellow <>
>> To: David Clark <>
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Feral cats
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Well done, David.
>>
>> Denise
>> Denise Goodfellow
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 19 Feb 2015, at 9:03 pm, David Clark <> wrote:
>>>
>>> Minister Hunt
>>>
>>> I assume that you are aware of the discovery of Night Parrot remains that
>>> indicate predation by a feral cat. While this loss of one of a newly
>>> discovered population of Night Parrots is potentially catastrophic, it
>>> serves to highlight the threat to Australian avifauna and smaller
>> mammals,
>>> reptiles and amphibians posed by the uncontrolled feral cat population.
>>>
>>> It is well past time for the Federal Government to take the lead in
>>> establishing programs to eliminate or, at least, dramatically reduce the
>>> feral cat population and ensure that domestic cats are controlled and not
>>> able to reinforce the feral population.
>>>
>>> I would expect the Federal Government to also take a lead role in
>>> controlling Cane Toads, Foxes, Rabbits, European Carp and pest plants,
>>> particularly those such as Gamba Grass that have the potential to
>>> significantly reduce biodiversity.
>>>
>>> I look forward to hearing how the Federal Government intends to tackle
>> the
>>> feral cat problem and other threats to our biodiversity.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> David Clark
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:46:25 +1100
>> From: "calyptorhynchus ." <>
>> To: "" <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Feral Cats
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAO5cx3zxNQuDYtKAzDvK88isDHUTmjmsw5Xg6JBUG-F6Arc9=
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> I think we all agree that Feral Cats are an enormous problem, especially in
>> desert areas, and will lead to the extinction of various species of birds,
>> mammals and reptiles in the short and medium terms unless something is
>> done.
>>
>> However, while governments across Australia (whether Liberal or Labor)
>> continue to be inflected with the neo-liberal ideology of
>>
>> governments-should-do-nothing-the-only-important-thing-is-to-have-a-budget-surplus
>> then I suggest that it is unlikely that anything will get done. Perhaps as
>> well as writing to our MPs and the Minister we should also start to contest
>> the notion that governments should do nothing as well in as many contexts
>> as we can.
>>
>> --
>> John Leonard
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 08:55:05 +1000
>> From: "Julian Bielewicz" <>
>> To: "Aus Birding" <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Coconut on my Rainbow
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Greetings Folks
>>
>> While updating a number of birdlists for my website [
>> www.birdingsouthburnett.com] I came across the Coconut Lorikeet. It
>> appears to be conflicting with Rainbow Lorikeet.
>>
>> The problem also exists in my computer bird journal program but I am
>> addressing that issue elsewhere.
>>
>> It appears that only the IOC makes specific reference to the Coconut as a
>> separate species:
>> Coconut haematodus
>> Rainbow moluccanus
>>
>> Clements has the Coconut as a ?group? within the Rainbow complex:
>>
>> Trichoglossus haematodus [haematodus Group] Rainbow Lorikeet (Coconut)
>>
>> Other consulted authorities [e.g. Lynx, Avibase, etc.] basically concur
>> with Clements.
>>
>> Which brings me to the recently released BARC list:
>>
>> Trichoglossus moluccanus Coconut
>>
>> Trichoglossus moluccanus Rainbow
>>
>>
>>
>> Am I to take this as indicating that ?Coconut? is merely an alternative
>> name for ?Rainbow?; or is it considered a subspecies; or that the two
>> having identical scientific names is a mere oversight, a ?typo??
>>
>> I would be grateful for any and all assistance in fathoming out how my
>> Rainbows got onto the coconut shy.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 09:41:47 +1000
>> From: Hannah <>
>> To: Denise Goodfellow <>
>> Cc: birding-aus <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Cyclone Marcia
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> It was an absolute privilege last weekend to spend time with Bob at his
>> property north of Yeppoon watching Buff-Breasted Paradise-Kingfishers. I
>> fear the worst for their hillside rainforest community, it will probably
>> take days to clear the track out.
>>
>> As we brace in Gladstone, it won't be anything like what Yeppoon and Rocky
>> are about to cop. Wishing you all the best, stay safe.
>>
>> Hannah
>>
>>
>>>> On 19 Feb 2015, at 8:51 pm, Denise Goodfellow <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> To all those in the path of Cyclone Marcia, my thoughts are with you.
>>>
>>> Take care.
>>>
>>> Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow
>>> PO Box 71
>>> Darwin River, NT, Australia 0841
>>>
>>> PhD candidate, Southern Cross University, Lismore, NSW.
>>>
>>> Founding Member: Ecotourism Australia
>>> Nominated by Earthfoot for Cond? Nast?s International Ecotourism Award,
>> 2004.
>>> 043 8650 835
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 11:23:14 +1100
>> From: "Mike Carter" <>
>> To: "'Julian Bielewicz'" <>, "'Aus Birding'"
>> <>
>> Cc: David James <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Coconut on my Rainbow
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I'm sure this is a typo in the BARC checklist. Coconut Lorikeet is T.
>> haematodus.
>>
>> Mike Carter, 03 9787 7136
>> 30 Canadian Bay Road
>> Mount Eliza, VIC 3930, Australia
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Birding-Aus On Behalf
>> Of Julian Bielewicz
>> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 9:55 AM
>> To: Aus Birding
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Coconut on my Rainbow
>>
>> Greetings Folks
>>
>> While updating a number of birdlists for my website [
>> www.birdingsouthburnett.com] I came across the Coconut Lorikeet. It
>> appears to be conflicting with Rainbow Lorikeet.
>>
>> The problem also exists in my computer bird journal program but I am
>> addressing that issue elsewhere.
>>
>> It appears that only the IOC makes specific reference to the Coconut as a
>> separate species:
>> Coconut haematodus
>> Rainbow moluccanus
>>
>> Clements has the Coconut as a ?group? within the Rainbow complex:
>>
>> Trichoglossus haematodus [haematodus Group] Rainbow Lorikeet (Coconut)
>>
>> Other consulted authorities [e.g. Lynx, Avibase, etc.] basically concur
>> with Clements.
>>
>> Which brings me to the recently released BARC list:
>>
>> Trichoglossus moluccanus Coconut
>>
>> Trichoglossus moluccanus Rainbow
>>
>>
>>
>> Am I to take this as indicating that ?Coconut? is merely an alternative
>> name for ?Rainbow?; or is it considered a subspecies; or that the two
>> having identical scientific names is a mere oversight, a ?typo??
>>
>> I would be grateful for any and all assistance in fathoming out how my
>> Rainbows got onto the coconut shy.
>>
>> Cheers
>> <HR>
>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>> <BR>
>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>> </HR>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2015.0.5646 / Virus Database: 4284/9147 - Release Date: 02/19/15
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:06:10 +1100
>> From: brian fleming <>
>> To:
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Backyard Goshawk, Ivanhoe
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Major surprise during a late breakfast- 9.45 am - looked out and saw a
>> large bird on the back steps behind the house, just below our
>> bird-bath. Lots of splashy dark brown markings - a juvenile Brown
>> Goshawk. Eyebrows and heavy legs clearly seen, tail out of sight behind
>> it. It stayed there for a minute or so, then took off and flew through
>> the garden. When I got out with the camera, it was perched in our
>> neighbour's big Sugar Gum, but again it took flight when I raised the
>> camera. Its movements around nearby gardens could be traced by numerous
>> alarm-calls.
>> Brown Goshawks were regular visitors in the 1970s but in recent years
>> they have not been seen very often.
>> Our house is above Darebin Creek - major local bird-route.
>>
>> Anthea Fleming
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:54:02 +1100
>> From: Carl Clifford <>
>> To: ""
>> <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go to tick the
>> Night Parrot
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find very
>> disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
>> setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
>> tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
>> enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I
>> were to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off
>> BA for life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for
>> retrospective sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>
>>
>> Hi Carl,
>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
>> ?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
>> space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
>> for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
>> end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>
>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>
>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
>> feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping some
>> of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>
>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
>> done.
>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>> Kind regards
>> John Young
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 13:08:13 +1100
>> From: Dave Torr <>
>> To: Carl Clifford <>
>> Cc: ""
>> <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go to tick
>> the Night Parrot
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAMQyua8h_Ut=
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Well - I guess if we hear of a mysterious fire and someone's life list goes
>> up by one will have a good suspect!
>>
>> On 20 February 2015 at 12:54, Carl Clifford <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
>> very
>>> disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
>>> setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he
>> could
>>> tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not
>> adequate
>>> enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I
>>> were to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off
>>> BA for life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for
>>> retrospective sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs
>> email:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Carl,
>>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
>>> ?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
>>> space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
>>> for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
>>> end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>>
>>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>>
>>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
>>> feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping
>> some
>>> of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>>
>>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
>>> done.
>>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>>> Kind regards
>>> John Young
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:36:59 +1000
>> From: "Barney Enders" <>
>> To: <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] The depth some twichers will go to tick Night
>> Parrots
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> They certainly walk amongst us, I have on several occasions had run in with
>> them especially when sitting quietly waiting with the camera for a good
>> shot
>>
>> and they walk in front of you and ask in a loud voice, "What is it"
>>
>>
>>
>> I remember sitting quietly on the water hole at Mungerannie Pub up the
>> Birdsville Track one evening with a group of International Birdies and we
>> heard what
>> sounded like rifle shots and all the birds took off flying never to be seen
>> again and this guy appeared cracking a whip, when asked what did he think
>> he
>> was doing
>>
>> he replied "It is easier to see them when they are flying. " Hello any
>> one home"
>>
>> Did he learn his pedigree very quickly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Fortunately these are few and far between and what John has described is a
>> hanging offence.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Better to sit and watch than to tick and walk"
>>
>>
>>
>> Barney
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:47:58 +1000
>> From: Richard NOWOTNY <>
>> To: Carl Clifford <>
>> Cc: ""
>> <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go to tick
>> the Night Parrot
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be thoughtful,
>> considered and temperate in our language when we post messages on a public
>> forum such as Birding-Aus.
>> I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
>> thoughts/comments on his post.
>> 1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email to
>> the list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this
>> way (and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
>> 2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
>> reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
>> person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
>> towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no
>> opportunity to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about
>> this.)
>> 3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might do
>> something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding that
>> this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration, rather
>> than say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly misinterpreted in a
>> sensitive and volatile setting).
>> I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist, and
>> of course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading (or
>> listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
>> particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
>> reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
>> And surely that's enough on this matter.
>> Regards. Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
>> very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
>> setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
>> tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
>> enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I
>> were to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off
>> BA for life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for
>> retrospective sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Carl,
>>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
>> ?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
>> space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
>> for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
>> end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>>
>>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>>
>>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of this
>> feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping some
>> of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>>
>>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
>> done.
>>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>>> Kind regards
>>> John Young
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:22:20 +1100
>> From: "Philip Veerman" <>
>> To: "'birding-aus'" <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Forwarding some abstracts about feral cat
>> research from CSIRO Wildlife Research Volume 41(5)
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> I have no connection with this, other than getting the contents list on an
>> email........ I have copied the extracts of two of the articles here:
>>
>> Welcome to the latest e-alert for Wildlife Research. This issue includes
>> articles about a diverse range of topics, including: meadow vole
>> populations; behaviour of birds in habitats invaded by buffel grass;
>> invasive stoat populations; effects of culling feral cats; light pollution
>> and flatback turtle hatchlings; habitat use by feral cats; using
>> mark-resight to monitor Canada geese; and the diet of frugivorous bats.
>>
>>
>> To view articles that have been published Online Early before they have
>> been
>> collated into an issue, visit the Journal's website. Alternatively,
>> subscribe to its RSS feed to be alerted when new articles are published.
>>
>> Effects of low-level culling of feral cats in open populations: a case
>> study
>> from the forests of southern Tasmania
>> Billie T. Lazenby, Nicholas J. Mooney and Christopher R. Dickman
>>
>>
>> Feral cats threaten biodiversity, and are often culled to reduce their
>> impact. The effectiveness of culling is largely unknown in areas where new
>> cats can replace those removed, but by using remote camera technology to
>> identify individuals, we found that low-level culling resulted in an
>> increase in cat numbers and activity. This unexpected result demonstrates
>> the importance of monitoring management actions, and the need for
>> strategic,
>> systematic, and ongoing commitment to managing feral cats if their impact
>> on
>> biodiversity is to be reduced.
>>
>> A critical review of habitat use by feral cats and key directions for
>> future
>> research and management
>> Tim S. Doherty, Andrew J. Bengsen and Robert A. Davis
>>
>>
>> Feral cats have a wide global distribution and are a serious threat to
>> biodiversity; an understanding of their habitat use is essential to
>> reducing
>> their impacts. Our review shows that current knowledge of the factors
>> influencing cat habitat use is poor. Future studies will benefit from
>> employing an experimental approach and collecting data on the relative
>> abundance and activity of prey and other predators. Local knowledge and
>> active monitoring is essential when deciding on control programs.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:19:20 +1100
>> From: Peter Shute <>
>> To: 'Richard NOWOTNY' <>, 'Carl Clifford'
>> <>
>> Cc: ""
>> <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go to tick
>> the Night Parrot
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> I'm hoping this is the situation, and that they weren't serious. I can't
>> believe anyone would be dumb enough to suggest that John get involved in
>> burning them out, even if they were prepared to do that themself.
>>
>> I doesn't seem very practical anyway, given that you'd get a fleeting
>> glimpse at best, if you could see it in the smoke.
>>
>> Peter Shute
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Birding-Aus
>>> On Behalf Of
>>> Richard NOWOTNY
>>> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 1:48 PM
>>> To: Carl Clifford
>>> Cc:
>>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go
>>> to tick the Night Parrot
>>>
>>> 3. John states that the supposed
>>> miscreant "implied" that a fire might do something. I would
>>> like to have the actual statement before concluding that this
>>> was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration,
>>> rather than say a careless or even whimsical comment
>>> (possibly misinterpreted in a sensitive and volatile setting).
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:49:14 +1100
>> From: "Stephen" <>
>> To: <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] feral cats
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> The loss of a Night Parrot to a feral cat is sad and dismaying, especially
>> as it is merely a known case among other unknowns, presumably.
>>
>> The unfortunate truth is that feral cats are now part of Australia's fauna,
>> along with foxes, cane toads etc. Despite many calls here for governments
>> to
>> do something, nothing can be done. Cats, like rabbits, are rapid breeders,
>> and their biggest enemies are other cats eager for a vacant territory and
>> food supply. Remove a cat, and you create a space for a grown kitten that
>> otherwise might starve, as most young of most species do.
>>
>> To permanently affect a local population of cats there would need to be
>> constant efforts of eradication, and even that would merely keep numbers
>> low. That effort across a continent is impossible.
>>
>> A potential answer may be a genetically engineered virus for cats, both
>> deadly and virulent. Were such developed, it could not be used lest it
>> escape Australia to destroy native cats of all types in the old world.
>>
>> Cats and foxes are an undoubted threat to birds and other native animals,
>> but the greater threat probably is habitat loss through clearing, grazing,
>> weeds, fire-regimes etc, etc.
>>
>> I don't have an answer; I just have a fear for these vulnerable species.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:01:18 +1100
>> From: Carl Clifford <>
>> To: Richard NOWOTNY <>
>> Cc: ""
>> <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go to tick
>> the Night Parrot
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> 1. I not only have John's permission but encouragement to forward this
>> email which he sent to me this morning.
>>
>> 2. It is not hearsay, the forwarded email is John's word written in his
>> own hand detailing what he heard and saw.
>>
>> 3. The accused person has the opportunity to state his/her case on
>> Birding-aus. Indeed, I look forward to their side of the story
>>
>> 4. It is up to the list members and/or moderators to decide when it is
>> "enough on this matter", not one individual.
>>
>> As for intemperate language, what I wrote is a greatly modified version of
>> what I feel towards a person who would use such tactics as described by
>> John, just to tick a bird.
>>
>> Carl Clifford
>>
>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:47 pm, Richard NOWOTNY <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be
>> thoughtful, considered and temperate in our language when we post messages
>> on a public forum such as Birding-Aus.
>>> I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
>> thoughts/comments on his post.
>>> 1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email to
>> the list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this
>> way (and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
>>> 2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
>> reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
>> person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
>> towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no
>> opportunity to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about
>> this.)
>>> 3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might
>> do something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding
>> that this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration,
>> rather than say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly
>> misinterpreted in a sensitive and volatile setting).
>>> I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist, and
>> of course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading (or
>> listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
>> particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
>> reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
>>> And surely that's enough on this matter.
>>> Regards. Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
>> very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
>> setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
>> tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
>> enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I
>> were to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off
>> BA for life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for
>> retrospective sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Carl,
>>>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
>> ?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>>>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
>> space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>>>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the bird
>> for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>>>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the other
>> end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>>>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>>>
>>>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>>>
>>>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of
>> this feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping
>> some of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>>>
>>>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
>> done.
>>>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> John Young
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <HR>
>>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>>> <BR>
>>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>> <BR>
>> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:04:13 +1100
>> From: Carl Clifford <>
>> To: Stephen <>
>> Cc: "<>" <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] feral cats
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> The best type of virus, would be one that causes sterility in males.
>>
>> Carl Clifford
>>
>>
>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 2:49 pm, Stephen <> wrote:
>>>
>>> The loss of a Night Parrot to a feral cat is sad and dismaying,
>> especially
>>> as it is merely a known case among other unknowns, presumably.
>>>
>>> The unfortunate truth is that feral cats are now part of Australia's
>> fauna,
>>> along with foxes, cane toads etc. Despite many calls here for
>> governments to
>>> do something, nothing can be done. Cats, like rabbits, are rapid
>> breeders,
>>> and their biggest enemies are other cats eager for a vacant territory and
>>> food supply. Remove a cat, and you create a space for a grown kitten that
>>> otherwise might starve, as most young of most species do.
>>>
>>> To permanently affect a local population of cats there would need to be
>>> constant efforts of eradication, and even that would merely keep numbers
>>> low. That effort across a continent is impossible.
>>>
>>> A potential answer may be a genetically engineered virus for cats, both
>>> deadly and virulent. Were such developed, it could not be used lest it
>>> escape Australia to destroy native cats of all types in the old world.
>>>
>>> Cats and foxes are an undoubted threat to birds and other native animals,
>>> but the greater threat probably is habitat loss through clearing,
>> grazing,
>>> weeds, fire-regimes etc, etc.
>>>
>>> I don't have an answer; I just have a fear for these vulnerable species.
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:53:32 +1100
>> From: brian fleming <>
>> To:
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
>> I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and
>> see one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in
>> Cape York and the Kimberley.
>> But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
>> seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him
>> a chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing
>> on indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few
>> years ago.
>> My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking
>> species and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into
>> studying the life-histories of even common birds, we would know very
>> much more than we do.
>> Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird
>> distribution and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great
>> deal of fun for those energetic enough to do it - so has digital
>> photography. But first and foremost, please let us consider the birds.
>>
>> Anthea Fleming
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 19
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:14:58 +1100
>> From: Michael Tarburton <>
>> To: Carl Clifford <>
>> Cc: ""
>> <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go to tick
>> the Night Parrot
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
>> format=flowed
>>
>> G'day All
>>
>> Some people! Could I suggest that the ecotraps made in Melbourne are
>> a very good way to catch cats and dogs. I used them in the bird
>> sanctuary in PNG, better known as Pacific Adventist University. 50%
>> of cats (from some old research I read) will not go into cage type
>> traps, but this trap does not look like a trap at all, even to a cat
>> or dog. It has a 1.5m zip on the narrow end so that if it is a Bilby
>> or other native animal you have caught, you can easily release it.
>>
>> Some nights I sat nearby and watched it work. Highly recommended -
>> though a tad expensive.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mike
>> ===================
>> Michael Tarburton
>>
>> ===================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 20/02/2015, at 12:54 PM, Carl Clifford wrote:
>>>
>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I
>>> find very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher
>>> could suggest setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex
>>> country, just so he could tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 20
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 16:20:27 +1030
>> From: "Tony Russell" <>
>> To: "'birding-aus'" <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] FW: Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tony Russell
>> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 4:18 PM
>> To: 'brian fleming'
>> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>>
>> Yes, ticking is a strange occupation, a bit like collecting train or bus
>> numbers ( which I used to do when I was a kid). Of course it does very
>> little towards conservation, and in fact there have been many comments from
>> "real" conservationists ( however defined) regarding the contempt in which
>> they hold twitchers. The twitching compulsion is however very powerful,
>> similar to heroin or crystal meth. or even pot I guess, not that I have
>> ever
>> been foolish enough to try any of these.
>>
>> I've been twitching now since 1991 and have experienced the excitement and
>> satisfaction of getting new birds over and over again, the feeling never
>> diminishes. The anticipation has made me travel all over this great
>> southern
>> land, covering many thousands of kilometres and costing sometimes
>> inordinate
>> amounts of money, and, incidentally, helping the tourism industry along the
>> way. I've nevr ever thought of lighting fires though.
>>
>> On reflection, it's hard to explain. But it's been thoroughly enjoyable and
>> I've made lots of friends. Tony.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Birding-Aus On Behalf
>> Of
>> brian fleming
>> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 3:24 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>>
>> I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
>> I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and see
>> one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in Cape
>> York and the Kimberley.
>> But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
>> seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
>> chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
>> indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few years
>> ago.
>> My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking species
>> and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying the
>> life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than we
>> do.
>> Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird distribution
>> and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great deal of fun for
>> those energetic enough to do it - so has digital photography. But first and
>> foremost, please let us consider the birds.
>>
>> Anthea Fleming
>>
>>
>> <HR>
>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>> <BR>
>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 21
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:03:27 +0930
>> From: Denise Goodfellow <>
>> To: Carl Clifford <>
>> Cc: Richard NOWOTNY <>, birding-aus
>> <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go to tick
>> the Night Parrot
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>
>> Having guided birders for 30 + years, I?ve some idea what mad keen birders
>> are capable of. And knowing John (and Carl), I don?t doubt at all what
>> Carl wrote.
>>
>> Denise Goodfellow
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:31 pm, Carl Clifford <> wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. I not only have John's permission but encouragement to forward this
>> email which he sent to me this morning.
>>>
>>> 2. It is not hearsay, the forwarded email is John's word written in his
>> own hand detailing what he heard and saw.
>>>
>>> 3. The accused person has the opportunity to state his/her case on
>> Birding-aus. Indeed, I look forward to their side of the story
>>>
>>> 4. It is up to the list members and/or moderators to decide when it is
>> "enough on this matter", not one individual.
>>>
>>> As for intemperate language, what I wrote is a greatly modified version
>> of what I feel towards a person who would use such tactics as described by
>> John, just to tick a bird.
>>>
>>> Carl Clifford
>>>
>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:47 pm, Richard NOWOTNY <>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be
>> thoughtful, considered and temperate in our language when we post messages
>> on a public forum such as Birding-Aus.
>>>> I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
>> thoughts/comments on his post.
>>>> 1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email
>> to the list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this
>> way (and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
>>>> 2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
>> reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
>> person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
>> towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no
>> opportunity to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about
>> this.)
>>>> 3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might
>> do something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding
>> that this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration,
>> rather than say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly
>> misinterpreted in a sensitive and volatile setting).
>>>> I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist,
>> and of course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading
>> (or listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
>> particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
>> reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
>>>> And surely that's enough on this matter.
>>>> Regards. Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
>> very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
>> setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
>> tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
>> enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I
>> were to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off
>> BA for life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for
>> retrospective sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Carl,
>>>>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
>> ?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>>>>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
>> space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>>>>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the
>> bird for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>>>>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the
>> other end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>>>>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of
>> this feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping
>> some of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>>>>
>>>>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
>> done.
>>>>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> John Young
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <HR>
>>>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>>>> <BR>
>>>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>>> <BR>
>> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>>>> </HR>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 22
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:30:37 +0930
>> From: Denise Goodfellow <>
>> To: Brian Fleming <>
>> Cc: birding-aus <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Dear Anthea
>>
>> I am all the way with you on this one.
>>
>>
>> Denise Goodfellow
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 2:23 pm, brian fleming <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
>>> I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and
>> see one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in
>> Cape York and the Kimberley.
>>> But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
>> seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
>> chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
>> indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few years
>> ago.
>>> My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking
>> species and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying
>> the life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than
>> we do.
>>> Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird
>> distribution and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great
>> deal of fun for those energetic enough to do it - so has digital
>> photography. But first and foremost, please let us consider the birds.
>>>
>>> Anthea Fleming
>>>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 23
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:55:14 +0000
>> From: Tony Clarke <>
>> To: "' ' "
>> <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot the ultimate tick
>> Message-ID:
>> <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Dear All
>>
>> I have been twitching now for something like 40 years and have done my
>> fair share of crazy things in pursuit of birds but this is beyond belief.
>> If the person was serious then they should be named and shamed, black
>> listed by all the bird tour companies, put in front of a court and tried
>> for criminal intent. Let's sentence him to being hung, drawn and quartered
>> at the British Bird Fair.
>>
>> ?
>> Tony Clarke,
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 24
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:58:53 +1000
>> From: Laurie Knight <>
>> To: Birding Aus <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go to tick
>> the Night Parrot
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>
>> I?m not sure what the fuss is about. From the limited context in Carl?s
>> original post, I presume John was referring to a conversation he had with a
>> birdwatcher - possibly at one of his lectures - where the use of fire was
>> mentioned as a hypothetical means to see a bird. I don?t believe that John
>> is in the habit of taking people to Night Parrot locations, so there was no
>> likelihood of a night parrot actually being disturbed.
>>
>> It is not unknown for birdwatchers to beat the ground to flush out birds,
>> and I think that beating or selective spinifex lighting was a technique
>> used to see Night Parrots back in the nineteenth century. Actually, I
>> think many observations came from horse riders who saw birds flushed by
>> their mounts.
>>
>> The bottom line is there are many people who don?t care about the welfare
>> of the birds they see. All we can do is educate people ...
>>
>> As for John?s comments about governments, I would remind you that there
>> have been many successful government programs to conserve birds in places
>> like Macquarie Island, Lord Howe Island, Norfolk Island and in New
>> Zealand. There is a place for both public and private sector conservation
>> efforts.
>>
>> Regards, Laurie.
>>
>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 2:01 pm, Carl Clifford <> wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. I not only have John's permission but encouragement to forward this
>> email which he sent to me this morning.
>>>
>>> 2. It is not hearsay, the forwarded email is John's word written in his
>> own hand detailing what he heard and saw.
>>>
>>> 3. The accused person has the opportunity to state his/her case on
>> Birding-aus. Indeed, I look forward to their side of the story
>>>
>>> 4. It is up to the list members and/or moderators to decide when it is
>> "enough on this matter", not one individual.
>>>
>>> As for intemperate language, what I wrote is a greatly modified version
>> of what I feel towards a person who would use such tactics as described by
>> John, just to tick a bird.
>>>
>>> Carl Clifford
>>>
>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:47 pm, Richard NOWOTNY <>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be
>> thoughtful, considered and temperate in our language when we post messages
>> on a public forum such as Birding-Aus.
>>>> I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
>> thoughts/comments on his post.
>>>> 1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email
>> to the list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this
>> way (and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
>>>> 2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
>> reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
>> person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
>> towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no
>> opportunity to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about
>> this.)
>>>> 3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might
>> do something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding
>> that this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration,
>> rather than say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly
>> misinterpreted in a sensitive and volatile setting).
>>>> I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist,
>> and of course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading
>> (or listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
>> particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
>> reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
>>>> And surely that's enough on this matter.
>>>> Regards. Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
>> very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
>> setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
>> tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
>> enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I
>> were to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off
>> BA for life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for
>> retrospective sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Carl,
>>>>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
>> ?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>>>>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
>> space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>>>>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the
>> bird for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>>>>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the
>> other end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>>>>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of
>> this feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping
>> some of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>>>>
>>>>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
>> done.
>>>>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> John Young
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <HR>
>>>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>>>> <BR>
>>>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>>> <BR>
>> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>>>> </HR>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 25
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 18:08:37 +1000
>> From: Stephen Murray <>
>> To: "'brian fleming'" <>,
>> <>
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I take exception to people setting themselves up as arbiters
>> on what is a worthwhile pastime and what isn't. To me, birdwatching is a
>> hobby, pure and simple: I collect photographs and I enjoy playing around
>> with lists and accumulating sightings. I am not an ornithologist and have
>> no
>> desire to become one. Therefore, I feel it is someone else's vocation to
>> contribute to the body of knowledge about birds. I personally know some
>> plane spotters, and, whilst I find it hard to relate to their excitement, I
>> would never disparage or denigrate what they do. Some people on this list
>> have a condescending attitude to twitchers and listers and are only too
>> pleased when something like this fire story comes along so that they can
>> tar
>> everyone with the same brush. How many twitchers do you think would set a
>> fire to flush birds out? Don't forget, that listers choose to list birds
>> rather than planes or trains or rocks. In most cases it's because they
>> actually like birds and wouldn't harm them for the world.
>> Steve Murray
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Birding-Aus On Behalf
>> Of
>> brian fleming
>> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 2:54 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>>
>> I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
>> I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and see
>> one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in Cape
>> York and the Kimberley.
>> But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
>> seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
>> chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
>> indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few years
>> ago.
>> My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking species
>> and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying the
>> life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than we
>> do.
>> Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird distribution
>> and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great deal of fun for
>> those energetic enough to do it - so has digital photography. But first and
>> foremost, please let us consider the birds.
>>
>> Anthea Fleming
>>
>>
>> <HR>
>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>> <BR>
>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 26
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 18:04:07 +0930
>> From: "Experience the Wild" <>
>> To: "'Stephen Murray'" <>
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> You have a good point and it is good to be reminded of the fact that there
>> is a biodiversity of bird watchers as well as birds. No-one has the right
>> to
>> be judgemental when it comes to another person's priorities when it comes
>> to
>> birding. I have only very rarely come across birders/twitchers who seem to
>> be more concerned about getting the tick than the welfare of the bird,
>> (usually when it comes to what I would consider inappropriate use of
>> playback). I accept that my opinions are not necessarily the same as
>> everyone else's and mutually respectful conversations on this as with other
>> matters relating to the birds, conservation, taxonomy, lists, tickability,
>> etc are interesting, enlightening and keep us checking the latest
>> Birding-Aus emails.
>>
>> Mike Jarvis
>> experiencethewild.com.au
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Birding-Aus On Behalf
>> Of
>> Stephen Murray
>> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 5:39 PM
>> To: 'brian fleming';
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I take exception to people setting themselves up as arbiters
>> on what is a worthwhile pastime and what isn't. To me, birdwatching is a
>> hobby, pure and simple: I collect photographs and I enjoy playing around
>> with lists and accumulating sightings. I am not an ornithologist and have
>> no
>> desire to become one. Therefore, I feel it is someone else's vocation to
>> contribute to the body of knowledge about birds. I personally know some
>> plane spotters, and, whilst I find it hard to relate to their excitement, I
>> would never disparage or denigrate what they do. Some people on this list
>> have a condescending attitude to twitchers and listers and are only too
>> pleased when something like this fire story comes along so that they can
>> tar
>> everyone with the same brush. How many twitchers do you think would set a
>> fire to flush birds out? Don't forget, that listers choose to list birds
>> rather than planes or trains or rocks. In most cases it's because they
>> actually like birds and wouldn't harm them for the world.
>> Steve Murray
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Birding-Aus On Behalf
>> Of
>> brian fleming
>> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 2:54 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>>
>> I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
>> I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and see
>> one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in Cape
>> York and the Kimberley.
>> But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
>> seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
>> chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
>> indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few years
>> ago.
>> My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking species
>> and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying the
>> life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than we
>> do.
>> Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird distribution
>> and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great deal of fun for
>> those energetic enough to do it - so has digital photography. But first and
>> foremost, please let us consider the birds.
>>
>> Anthea Fleming
>>
>>
>> <HR>
>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>> <BR>
>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>> </HR>
>>
>>
>> <HR>
>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>> <BR>
>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 27
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 20:32:25 +1100
>> From: Thomas Wilson <>
>> To: birding aus <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Possible Pectoral Sandpiper - Sydney Olympic
>> Park (& some other stuff)
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hi all
>> I had a very ad hoc/unplanned trip to Sydney Olympic Park this morning (20
>> Feb). At the waterbird refuge there was a single possible Pectoral
>> Sandpiper that would be worth checking out. It was seen working in and out
>> of the samphire near the water's edge about 50m to the right of the hide.
>> Views from the hide were restricted to head only and it was best seen when
>> looking back across the front of the hide (a long way) from the path.
>> Distinctive feature was a very white belly with heavily marked breast and
>> very distinct cut off between the two, which was what made me think
>> Pectoral. Legs yellowish. A pale supercilium extended well beyond the eye
>> and crown had no trace of chestnut. When it stood straight, it looked
>> "tall". No Sharpies on site for a size comparison and no pics possible
>> unfortunately (too far away and camera battery discovered to be flat -
>> that's what happens with ad hoc trips...). I have also reported this in the
>> NSW/ACT Birders Facebook site and I think there may be others heading out
>> tomorrow to check it out (hoping it's still there).
>>
>> Also at the hide was a small covey of Brown Quail (saw 1, reckon 6 based
>> on locations of calls) in the long grass/scrub just to the right when
>> looking out of the hide. I didn't try to count the Red-necked Avocets but a
>> good number of them and several busy groups of Black-fronted Dotterels too.
>> There have been 3 Australasian Shovelers reported recently, but I could not
>> find them.
>>
>> At nearby Mason Park, there were about 40 Sharpies (although they flew off
>> and headed away before I could count properly). The flew off up the canal,
>> so may have been heading for a site on Parramatta River or somewhere like
>> that? There is a lone Pink-eared Duck at that site too.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Tom Wilson
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 28
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 19:24:10 +0930
>> From: Andrew Bell <>
>> To: Carl Clifford <>
>> Cc: Richard NOWOTNY <>,
>> "" <
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] The depths some twitchers will go to tick
>> the Night Parrot
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Sounds to me like a birder brought up on a diet of Monty Python with
>> tongue pressed firmly in the cheek. (One birder I could imagine making such
>> a quip is Bill Oddie, and I wouldn't put it past Jeremy Clarkson dropping a
>> line like that either).
>>
>> Cheers, and remind me never to make such a twisted remark, even in jest...
>>
>> Andrew Bell
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:31 pm, Carl Clifford <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. I not only have John's permission but encouragement to forward this
>> email which he sent to me this morning.
>>>
>>> 2. It is not hearsay, the forwarded email is John's word written in his
>> own hand detailing what he heard and saw.
>>>
>>> 3. The accused person has the opportunity to state his/her case on
>> Birding-aus. Indeed, I look forward to their side of the story
>>>
>>> 4. It is up to the list members and/or moderators to decide when it is
>> "enough on this matter", not one individual.
>>>
>>> As for intemperate language, what I wrote is a greatly modified version
>> of what I feel towards a person who would use such tactics as described by
>> John, just to tick a bird.
>>>
>>> Carl Clifford
>>>
>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 1:47 pm, Richard NOWOTNY <>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to weigh in again here with a plea for us all to be
>> thoughtful, considered and temperate in our language when we post messages
>> on a public forum such as Birding-Aus.
>>>> I'm sure Carl had only the best of intentions, but here are some
>> thoughts/comments on his post.
>>>> 1. Did he seek John's permission before sending John's personal email
>> to the list? John may not wish his private comments to be broadcast in this
>> way (and they may not do him any favours by being made public).
>>>> 2. Is second-hand information ("hearsay" in legal terms) sufficiently
>> reliable to justify such strong and emotive language directed at another
>> person ["Utter contempt is not adequate enough to describe my feelings
>> towards this person."], particularly when this person has had no
>> opportunity to put their side of the story? (John himself knows all about
>> this.)
>>>> 3. John states that the supposed miscreant "implied" that a fire might
>> do something. I would like to have the actual statement before concluding
>> that this was a statement of genuine intent or serious consideration,
>> rather than say a careless or even whimsical comment (possibly
>> misinterpreted in a sensitive and volatile setting).
>>>> I know some might find all of this altogether too prissy and purist,
>> and of course megaphone commentary makes for much more entertaining reading
>> (or listening - think shock-jocks). But shouldn't we try on this forum,
>> particularly with its slightly scientific pretensions, to remain objective,
>> reasonable, fair, decent - you know, all that stuff?
>>>> And surely that's enough on this matter.
>>>> Regards. Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 11:54 am, Carl Clifford <>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have just received this email from John Young, part of which I find
>> very disturbing. How someone who purports to be a birdwatcher could suggest
>> setting fire to a fragile environment as spinifex country, just so he could
>> tick the Night Parrot is quite unfathomable. Utter contempt is not adequate
>> enough to describe my feelings towards this person. Unfortunately, if I
>> were to use the phraseology I would like to, I would likely be kicked off
>> BA for life. Suffice to say, they would be a suitable candidate for
>> retrospective sterilisation. Enough of my raging, here is John Youngs email:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Carl,
>>>>> I could not resist complimenting you on your quote about governments
>> ?Cloud Cuckoo Land? how good and factual is that.
>>>>> Personally I think they are a baby kissing, weak hand shaking waste of
>> space ? hence my stand to avoid them at all costs.
>>>>> The scary part was I recently had an individual wanting to see the
>> bird for his list at all costs and cost was the word.
>>>>> He actually implied that a spinifex fire would force them out the
>> other end so people could see them if lit when in position.
>>>>> If I would have been closer I would have beat the #!%# out of him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely our priceless fauna mean more than just a bloody tick.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our focus as a serious group of people now should be the killing of
>> this feral menace that has the potential in the VERY near future of wiping
>> some of our precious fauna off the face of the earth.
>>>>>
>>>>> A huge thankyou to you and those who are driving this point home..well
>> done.
>>>>> My turn is coming and I will take no prisoners.
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> John Young
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <HR>
>>>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>>>> <BR>
>>>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>>> <BR>
>> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>>>> </HR>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 29
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 21:39:25 +1100
>> From: David Stowe <>
>> To: Stephen Murray <>
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Couldn?t agree more Steve.
>> I?ll also never be an ornithologist and whilst i try to help out
>> conservation where i can, I don?t think anyone should have to justify the
>> fact that they simply enjoy birdwatching in whatever form gives them the
>> most personal pleasure. Does no-one else have hobbies or ways to relax that
>> don?t actually have a higher purpose? Do we judge people for reading the
>> newspaper?
>>
>> I?ve personally been with birders who have made jokes about flushing
>> things with fire etc - but it has certainly always been tongue in cheek for
>> sure!
>> Yes if someone made the comment seriously it is terrible indeed - but lets
>> put away the pitch forks for a bit eh?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On 20 Feb 2015, at 7:08 pm, Stephen Murray <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, but I take exception to people setting themselves up as
>> arbiters
>>> on what is a worthwhile pastime and what isn't. To me, birdwatching is a
>>> hobby, pure and simple: I collect photographs and I enjoy playing around
>>> with lists and accumulating sightings. I am not an ornithologist and
>> have no
>>> desire to become one. Therefore, I feel it is someone else's vocation to
>>> contribute to the body of knowledge about birds. I personally know some
>>> plane spotters, and, whilst I find it hard to relate to their
>> excitement, I
>>> would never disparage or denigrate what they do. Some people on this list
>>> have a condescending attitude to twitchers and listers and are only too
>>> pleased when something like this fire story comes along so that they can
>> tar
>>> everyone with the same brush. How many twitchers do you think would
>> set a
>>> fire to flush birds out? Don't forget, that listers choose to list birds
>>> rather than planes or trains or rocks. In most cases it's because they
>>> actually like birds and wouldn't harm them for the world.
>>> Steve Murray
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Birding-Aus On
>> Behalf Of
>>> brian fleming
>>> Sent: Friday, 20 February 2015 2:54 PM
>>> To:
>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Night Parrot - tickers and listers
>>>
>>> I am personally always delighted to see a new bird.
>>> I am prepared to get in the car and drive a moderate distance to go and
>> see
>>> one. I have been known to pay money for people to show me birds in Cape
>>> York and the Kimberley.
>>> But I am extremely concerned - no, appalled, to hear of some person
>>> seriously suggesting that spinifex should be fired in order to give him a
>>> chance of "ticking" a Night Parrot, or anything else. Or trespassing on
>>> indigenous people's land to see a Princess Parrot, as happened a few
>> years
>>> ago.
>>> My personal opinion is that far too much effort is spent on ticking
>> species
>>> and building life-lists. If the same effort was put into studying the
>>> life-histories of even common birds, we would know very much more than we
>>> do.
>>> Certainly atlassing has greatly built up our knowledge of bird
>> distribution
>>> and migration, and Twitchathons etc. have provided a great deal of fun
>> for
>>> those energetic enough to do it - so has digital photography. But first
>> and
>>> foremost, please let us consider the birds.
>>>
>>> Anthea Fleming
>>>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>>
>>>
>>> <HR>
>>> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>> <BR>
>>> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>> </HR>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 30
>> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 22:29:06 +1100
>> From: Charles <>
>> To: "<>" <>
>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Zoo Australia
>> Message-ID: <>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> An interesting take on "fencing" to protect wildlife.
>>
>>
>> http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-20/phillips-predator-proof-fences/6162484
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Charles Hunter
>> +61 402 907 577
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Birding-Aus mailing list
>>
>> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Birding-Aus Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18
>> *******************************************
>>
> <HR>
> <BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
> <BR>
> <BR> To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> <BR> http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> </HR>
<HR>
<BR> Birding-Aus mailing list
<BR>
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