As the range of both these species is (unfortunately) some 1000s of
kilometres from anywhere that I am likely to be in the near future I have
not paid full attention to this discussion. However given the subtleties
of distinguishing the species on field marks I wonder whether thought has
been given to uniting them as a single species.
I realise that until Apple or Google release their DNA sequencing app the
nuances of appearance will have to do for field work, but I wonder if a
taxonomist could comment on the degree of difference between the genetic
composition of the two species and whether they could be considered for
lumping?
Martin
On 13 September 2013 19:52, David James <> wrote:
> Hi Nikolas,
>
> The two species are similar looking, everyone agrees. Seeing the two
> species together a few minutes apart or at the same time is not unusual, so
> it is not only a circumstantial argument but a dubious one too. If you can
> only see one bird pictured I would politely suggest that you are missing
> the detail. The differences are subtle, yet obvious to an experienced eye.
> I lived in Townsville, where all 3 occur, for 11 years, studied them
> throughout their Australian ranges in the field and looked at museum skins
> for my ID article, and have since found the characters I proposed to
> be fail safe. I think the 'streaking' on the underparts of the first photo
> is very narrow shaft streaks (only noticeable with too much scrutiny) and
> is due to pale feather edges on the 2nd, so quite different (hence the term
> I use, 'shaggy' rather than 'streaky'). The first has a yellow belly strip,
> the second a yellow belly wash. The first has a more orange tinge to the
> fleshy
> part of the gape, where as the 2nd has a gape all the same SHADE of
> yellow but a little BRIGHTER on the fleshy bit. The angles are not good for
> comparing the shape of the stripe. The bills are different shapes, long,
> fine, decurved in the 1st, stubbier and chunkier in the 2nd. The shape of
> the ear patch is unreliable. The size of the ear patch tends to be bigger
> in Y-S and to my eye it looks bigger in the 2nd photo. All these characters
> and others are explained much more clearly in my article, but unfortunately
> I don't have a scan to send you.
>
> ==============================
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Nikolas Haass <>
> To: David James <>; Birding Aus <
> >
> Sent: Friday, 13 September 2013 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Yellow-spotted or Graceful Honeyeater?
>
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> I see your and Lloyds reasoning for the two-bird theory. However, the two
> pictures were taken a few minutes apart from each other, and to my memory
> Jeff said he had never seen more than one bird at a time. So, I am not sure
> if the differences seen in the two pictures are really species-related or
> rather photography-related (funny angle, different light, frozen snapshot
> that may or may not show the typical posture...). We all agree that the
> second picture shows a Yellow-spotted Honeyeater. I can only see one bird
> pictured, not two: If you look carefully at the details such as the exact
> shape of uneven areas in the naked skin of the gape as well as the detailed
> shape of the ear patch, they appear identical in both pictures. There is
> also no obvious difference in bill shape between the two pictures, although
> this is hard to tell because the bill is open in the first picture. I also
> don't see a difference in the intensity of stripes on the underparts.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Nikolas
>
> ----------------
> Nikolas Haass
>
> Brisbane, QLD
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: David James <>
> To: Birding Aus <>
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 12:02 PM
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Yellow-spotted or Graceful Honeyeater?
>
>
> Nikolas has sent me the other photo and I agree with Lloyd. The first is a
> Graceful and the second is a Yellow-spotted. It would be worth putting the
> second photo on the blog so everyone can see. The characters I mentioned in
> my first post should highlight the main differences between the two birds
>
> Cheers,
> David James
> Sydney
> ==============================
> ===============================
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--
Martin Butterfield
http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/
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