Hi David,
This is obviously a misunderstanding. I never ever doubted the field marks of
the two species that you, Martin and Lloyd pointed out and I definitely don't
have the experience with these two species that the three of you have (neither
of these honeyeaters occur in the Southern Ocean ;-)
Interestingly all of us agree 100% that the bird in the second picture is a
Yellow-spotted Honeyeater. In contrast to challenging your experience with
telling apart the two SPECIES (which I never intended to do) I was and still am
skeptical regarding telling apart the INDIVIDUAL(S) in the two PHOTOGRAPHS -
and this is totally independent of any experience with the species. I still
believe that there are subtle signs visible (see previous mail and below) that
indicate that the bird in both photos may be the same bird. These subtleties
are not field marks to tell species apart, they are minor irregularities
similar to the ones that make us recognise specific people in a crowd.
You may say that the photos are not good enough to judge on these subtleties.
But also I am nut sure if the photos are good enough to judge on the
'shagginess' versus 'streakiness' (blurry in both pictures), the yellow stripe
versus the yellow wash (blurry in both pictures), the colour of the gape (very
overexposed in the second picture), shape of the bill (different angle in both
pictures plus open vs. closed). Yes, the ear patch is unreliable for SPECIES ID
but it could be useful for recognition of the same individual - in other words:
If the shape was different I would be more convinced that the birds are indeed
different birds (the double notch, one facing the gape line, the other below
appear very similar in both birds). Also there is a very similar notch in the
gape line just below the 6 o'clock pole of the eye.
Again, I am not questioning anyone's ID skills, just the possibility of
photographic artefacts...
Best wishes,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Brisbane, QLD
________________________________
From: David James <>
To: Nikolas Haass <>; Birding Aus <>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 7:52 PM
Subject: Yellow-spotted or Graceful Honeyeater?
Hi Nikolas,
The two species are similar looking, everyone agrees. Seeing the two species
together a few minutes apart or at the same time is not unusual, so it is not
only a circumstantial argument but a dubious one too. If you can only see one
bird pictured I would politely suggest that you are missing the detail. The
differences are subtle, yet obvious to an experienced eye. I lived in
Townsville, where all 3 occur, for 11 years, studied them throughout their
Australian ranges in the field and looked at museum skins for my ID article,
and have since found the characters I proposed to be fail safe. I think the
'streaking' on the underparts of the first photo is very narrow shaft streaks
(only noticeable with too much scrutiny) and is due to pale feather edges on
the 2nd, so quite different (hence the term I use, 'shaggy' rather than
'streaky'). The first has a yellow belly strip, the second a yellow belly wash.
The first has a more orange tinge to the fleshy
part of the gape, where as the 2nd has a gape all the same SHADE of yellow but
a little BRIGHTER on the fleshy bit. The angles are not good for comparing the
shape of the stripe. The bills are different shapes, long, fine, decurved in
the 1st, stubbier and chunkier in the 2nd. The shape of the ear patch is
unreliable. The size of the ear patch tends to be bigger in Y-S and to my eye
it looks bigger in the 2nd photo. All these characters and others are explained
much more clearly in my article, but unfortunately I don't have a scan to send
you.
==============================
From: Nikolas Haass <>
To: David James <>; Birding Aus
<>
Sent: Friday, 13 September 2013 1:14 PM
Subject: Yellow-spotted or Graceful Honeyeater?
Hi David,
I see your and Lloyds reasoning for the two-bird theory. However, the two
pictures were taken a few minutes apart from each other, and to my memory Jeff
said he had never seen more than one bird at a time. So, I am not sure if the
differences seen in the two pictures are really species-related or rather
photography-related (funny angle, different light, frozen snapshot that may or
may not show the typical posture...). We all agree that the second picture
shows a Yellow-spotted Honeyeater. I can only see one bird pictured, not two:
If you look carefully at the details such as the exact shape of uneven areas in
the naked skin of the gape as well as the detailed shape of the ear patch, they
appear identical in both pictures. There is also no obvious difference in bill
shape between the two pictures, although this is hard to tell because the bill
is open in the first picture. I also don't see a difference in the intensity of
stripes on the underparts.
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Brisbane, QLD
From: David James <>
To: Birding Aus <>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 12:02 PM
Subject: Yellow-spotted or Graceful Honeyeater?
Nikolas has sent me the other photo and I agree with Lloyd. The first is a
Graceful and the second is a Yellow-spotted. It would be worth putting the
second photo on the blog so everyone can see. The characters I mentioned in my
first post should highlight the main differences between the two birds
Cheers,
David James
Sydney
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