I'm no expert by any measure, but even if there is one language there
are clearly more than one accepted name (ie the multiple names for
hihi in the field guides is a great example). Presumably these arise
from regional differences.
However I think that we're missing the point here, it is not about
finding one language that covers an entire species/genera/family
distribution, as clearly that will never work in Australia. It should
be noted though that even after 200+ years our current common names
are not accepted universally across the country and are still in a
state of flux (hence this thread!).
What we need to do is replace stupid common names, particularly
focusing at the genera level (e.g. shrike-thrush), with something
more appropriate. I don't think anyone is suggesting we ditch eagle,
as this has relevance to other countries, phylogeny and the bird
itself. If the new name happens to be an indigenous one, then
logically the name would be chosen (presumably by BAs naming
committee, or a group of determined, intrepid souls...) based upon
the ease of pronunciation, any special cultural significance and
perhaps with an eye on spreading the names across several languages.
Magpie geese are a good example of how this might work, their
importance to locals in northern cf. southern Australia suggests a
northern name would be more appropriate. There are also not multiple
species, so a single name for these guys would work, whereas it
wouldn't for the shrike-thrushes. Clearly that group needs a new
common name at the genus level only, ie grey <insert wonderful
indigenous name here> and so forth.
There would always be shades of grey and difficult decisions, but to
try and please everyone and cover every indigenous language would mean
paralysis for the process and (if we're still here), having the same
debate in 200 years on twitter squared or whatever is in vogue! What
we need is people that feel sufficiently motivated to come up with the
new names as a starting point. With that I take a large step back ;)
Happy birding,
Paul
On 24/11/2009, at 4:18 PM, Peter Shute wrote:
I'm completely ignorant of Maori culture, but a quick Googling
suggests there is only one Maori language, in which case their names
are an obvious choice. That's just not true here, where there are
many languages, many of which are extinct anyway.
Peter Shute
-----Original Message-----
From:
] On Behalf Of Paul McDonald
Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2009 3:32 PM
To: Birding-Aus Birding-Aus
Subject: Re: Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru'
One needs only look across the ditch to see how well this could and
does work. I'd much rather see and talk about Kereru than NZ
pigeons, or kakariki cf. parakeets. Far more interesting birds on
paper. I really enjoyed the way most NZ birders adhere to the Maori
names when over there and, while there are many species with several
names (e.g.
Hihi), it seems to work quite well.
If nothing else it provides yet another angle for kiwi birders to
sledge us, or perhaps that is just my pronunciation, or lack thereof!
Cheers,
Paul
On 24/11/2009, at 3:16 PM, wrote:
Wombats are still badgers in parts of Tasmania!
Excellent suggestion Mark. There will be problems with the
plethora of
Aboriginal languages (and the difficulty English speakers have
pronouncing Aboriginal words) and differences between their taxonomy
and that of Western science but and it shouldn't be too great a task.
Consider the following:
Western Kulin names (from southwestern Victoria)
Maerii - Gang Gang Cockatoo
Pirtuup - Sandpiper
Wilann - Black Cockatoo [probably Red-tailed]
Eastern Kulin names (from central Victoria)
Kruk-wor-rum - Snipe
Dulum - Black Duck
Bath-mum - Wood Duck
Uu-gup - King Parrot
Barrawarn - Australian Magpie
Tee-yung - Rose Robin
Nup-nup or Bik-mum - [Magpie] goose
Some of the words may not use the linguistically preferred spelling
but you should get an idea of what could work.
Regards
David
Mark Carter
<markthomascarter
@yahoo.co.uk> To
Sent by:
birding-aus-
bounc cc
Subject
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re
'Jabiru'
24/11/09 01:55 PM
I agree with Philip Veerman's post- the confusing 'Jabiru' is just
the
tip of the iceberg when it comes to Australian bird common names. I
think settlers did Australian birds a great diservice when they set
about naming them after the vaguely similar species of elsewhere but
it was understandible. What I don't understand is the way 21st
century
ornithology persists with these clumsy confusing labels. A Red-capped
Robin is not a robin in much the same way than a Koala bear is not a
bear.
Mammologists
have gotten over this dodgy inheritance years ago- native cats are
now
almost universally renamed quolls, marsupial mice are now dunnarts
(or
antichinus or psuedo antichinus or...) and porcupines are now
echidnas.
Australian birds such as shrike-thrushes, woodswallows, wrens, chats,
magpies, babblers and treecreepers are intrinsically awesome and
don't
deserve to be encumbered by these clumsy, 2nd hand, confusing and
often dreadful misnomers (shrike-thrush particularly makes me
cringe).
These is a
vast and rich source of authentic names in the many Aboriginal
languages of our continent- is it outragous to suggest we consider
this?
Mark Carter
Alice Springs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:15:24 +1100
From: "Philip Veerman" <>
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re 'Jabiru'
To: "'Tony Russell'" <>
Cc: "Birding-aus \(E-mail\)" <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Surely their proper name is the Australian Black Satin-necked non-
jabiru Stork. (joke)
Why doesn't some book author take the initiative to rename some bird
groups to simpler things, like rename the Cuckoo-shrikes as Cush e.g.
"Black-faced Cush" and likewise invent other new names, so we can
dispense with all those silly names like "Cuckoo-shrike" (not a
joke).
After all, names are just labels, why not have distinctive ones that
don't give wrong impressions.
Philip Veerman
24 Castley Circuit
Kambah ACT 2902
02 - 62314041
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Dr. Paul G. McDonald
Department of Brain, Behaviour and Evolution
Macquarie University
Sydney, NSW 2109
Australia
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Australia
Ph: +612 9850 9232 Fax: +612 9850 9231
http://galliform.bhs.mq.edu.au/~paul/
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