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Cooktown Slaty-backed Gull happily post sittingtoday

To: Jeff Davies <>
Subject: Cooktown Slaty-backed Gull happily post sittingtoday
From: Alan McBride <>
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:03:54 +1100
Hi all,

Not wanting to steal kudos here but just so it doesn't get left out I thought I'd record that Chris Benesh from the US suggested, amongst other other likely candidate species, that Slaty-backed Gull seemed the best fit. This he sent to me in a mail note I forwarded to Mike Carter and Tony Palliser very early on the morning of the 16th in Sydney (15th in Arizona)!

Chris also is not one to be excited whether he receives credit or not but I was very impressed with his quick response from ONLY one of the very first photo's sent out on the bird in fact his response was within 18 hours of the first photos of the bird being sent out from Parks in Qld., even allowing for the tyranny of distance!!

So from me at least, Thanks Chris, great work.

Cheers

Alan



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On 23/02/2008, at 20:02 , Jeff Davies wrote:

G'day Nikolas,

I think DNA would be fine but its an issue as to how this is achieved and who would pay for it. I'm still more interested in knowing what is left to
stand in the way of it being a Slaty-back, I think that's where the
discussion should go from here.

Cheers Jeff.

-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of Nikolas Haass
Sent: Saturday, 23 February 2008 7:06 PM
To: Mike Carter; Tony Russell; BIRDING-AUS
Subject: Cooktown Slaty-backed Gull happily post
sittingtoday

Hi Mike and Jeff,

What I wanted to say with my provocative mail is that we obviously had
problems ID'ing this bird. For me it still could very well be a Slaty- back and I also pointed out earlier that I don't like to call everything a hybrid that I can't ID - but did we really rule out a hybrid? I do agree that many features speak for Slaty-back and that's why I initially ID'd it as such. However, several others vehemently ruled out Slaty-back (because of color and pattern of scaps and mantle feathers, because of the size and shape of the bill and I think there were more mentioned). So apparently it is not a 'straight-forward' ID. So after all this confusing back and forth, I really
would be curious about the results of a DNA analysis!

Nikolas

----------------
Nikolas Haass

Sydney, NSW


----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Carter <>
To: Nikolas Haass <>; Tony Russell <>;
BIRDING-AUS <>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:08:40 PM
Subject: Cooktown Slaty-backed Gull happily post sitting
today

Nikolas Haass <> said today
To: "Tony Russell" <>; "Mike Carter"
<>; "BIRDING-AUS" <>


Although I was the first one who dared to ID the bird as a female
first-winter Slaty-backed Gull (see old posting below), I still would NOT
say that we 'SETTLED' on a definite ID.
We clearly ruled out Thayer's Gull, American Herring Gull (see below), the

fuscus complex including Heuglin's Gull (heuglini and taimyrensis),
Eurasian Herring Gull, and most of the "yellow-legged gull complex".
Moreover, as I indicated a week ago, tail and primary patterns speak
against Mongolian and Steppe Gull.
And also Vega doesn't fit 100%. But - although it was my favorite - does Slaty-back fit 100%? No, it looks good for a Slaty-back, but apparently not 100%! Look at all the divergent comments from experts from all over
the world! I think, the final ID at this point should be "possible
Slaty-back".

Nikolas

So although you named it several days ago, you are still not 100% convinced?
Please tell us what you consider unsatisfactory in that ID.

Jeff Davies and I will prepare the BARC submission and we are confident that

we can totally justify that diagnosis. Among significant aspects that you
didn't address were the plain dark underwing pattern and short primary
projection beyond tail. Once those two features fell into place for
Slaty-backed ruling out Vega Gull the one remaining stumbling block was the scapular pattern which was more typical of Vega Gull. But now we know some Slaty-backs can be similarly patterned there are no contra- indications. The presence of that second generation secondary feather noted by Alvaro was a
bonus. All discriminators are in favour of Slaty-backed Gull. QED.

Mike Carter
30 Canadian Bay Road
Mount Eliza  VIC 3930
Tel  (03) 9787 7136



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