G'day Nikolas,
I think DNA would be fine but its an issue as to how this is achieved and
who would pay for it. I'm still more interested in knowing what is left to
stand in the way of it being a Slaty-back, I think that's where the
discussion should go from here.
Cheers Jeff.
-----Original Message-----
From:
On Behalf Of Nikolas Haass
Sent: Saturday, 23 February 2008 7:06 PM
To: Mike Carter; Tony Russell; BIRDING-AUS
Subject: Cooktown Slaty-backed Gull happily post
sittingtoday
Hi Mike and Jeff,
What I wanted to say with my provocative mail is that we obviously had
problems ID'ing this bird. For me it still could very well be a Slaty-back
and I also pointed out earlier that I don't like to call everything a hybrid
that I can't ID - but did we really rule out a hybrid? I do agree that many
features speak for Slaty-back and that's why I initially ID'd it as such.
However, several others vehemently ruled out Slaty-back (because of color
and pattern of scaps and mantle feathers, because of the size and shape of
the bill and I think there were more mentioned). So apparently it is not a
'straight-forward' ID. So after all this confusing back and forth, I really
would be curious about the results of a DNA analysis!
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Sydney, NSW
----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Carter <>
To: Nikolas Haass <>; Tony Russell <>;
BIRDING-AUS <>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:08:40 PM
Subject: Cooktown Slaty-backed Gull happily post sitting
today
Nikolas Haass <> said today
To: "Tony Russell" <>; "Mike Carter"
<>; "BIRDING-AUS" <>
> Although I was the first one who dared to ID the bird as a female
> first-winter Slaty-backed Gull (see old posting below), I still would NOT
> say that we 'SETTLED' on a definite ID.
> We clearly ruled out Thayer's Gull, American Herring Gull (see below), the
> fuscus complex including Heuglin's Gull (heuglini and taimyrensis),
> Eurasian Herring Gull, and most of the "yellow-legged gull complex".
> Moreover, as I indicated a week ago, tail and primary patterns speak
> against Mongolian and Steppe Gull.
> And also Vega doesn't fit 100%. But - although it was my favorite - does
> Slaty-back fit 100%? No, it looks good for a Slaty-back, but apparently
> not 100%! Look at all the divergent comments from experts from all over
> the world! I think, the final ID at this point should be "possible
> Slaty-back".
>
> Nikolas
So although you named it several days ago, you are still not 100% convinced?
Please tell us what you consider unsatisfactory in that ID.
Jeff Davies and I will prepare the BARC submission and we are confident that
we can totally justify that diagnosis. Among significant aspects that you
didn't address were the plain dark underwing pattern and short primary
projection beyond tail. Once those two features fell into place for
Slaty-backed ruling out Vega Gull the one remaining stumbling block was the
scapular pattern which was more typical of Vega Gull. But now we know some
Slaty-backs can be similarly patterned there are no contra-indications. The
presence of that second generation secondary feather noted by Alvaro was a
bonus. All discriminators are in favour of Slaty-backed Gull. QED.
Mike Carter
30 Canadian Bay Road
Mount Eliza VIC 3930
Tel (03) 9787 7136
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