2
Date: Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:36 am ((PDT))
Eric:
The self-noise of a microphone is due to more than just the FET used for th=
e capsule.But even so, since the Transsound FET is inside the capsule, how =
do you check its type or change it?
I agree that some manufacturer's spec are not clear and may be incorrect u=
nder certain conditions.
But besides checking the TSB-165A data sheet, I did listen to the recording=
s on Jules' website, which gave me a gut feeling for the noise floor of the=
Alice mic.
Eric, have you done any nature recording in quiet spaces using the 'Alice' =
mic?
It would be most useful for us to hear some of those recordings.
Regarding the measurement of capsule self-noise, what technique/process do =
you use?It would be of great interest to many of us, so please share it.=A0=
=A0 :>}
Thanks in advance for your help in this matter.
Could you please elaborate on your comments regarding ORTF relative to larg=
e vs small diaphragm mics?I missed something there.
BTW, Grzinich used small-diaphragm AT-4021s on the Soundcloud example, belo=
w.
All the best,
From: "Eric Benjamin [naturerecordists]" <naturerec=
>
To: "" <>=
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Alice Microphone for Field Recording?
=A0 The data sheet for the transsound tsb-165a is a bit misleading. It li=
sts several electronic specifications but it doesn't show what FET is used =
to obtain those specs. Previous communications with transsound say that a 2=
sk596 was used. I have measured several Alice type implementations and get =
self noise in the mid teens of dB. =A0I think that it may be possible to do=
better.
I personally prefer small diaphragm microphones, especially when implementi=
ng ORTF or MS. ORTF has the microphones pointed away from the sound source.=
=A0In that case, the microphone rolls off. It rolls off substantially if i=
t is a large diaphragm type. =A0Note that there is a contradiction between =
low noise that can be achieved with a large diaphragm type such as AKG C414=
=A0and a small diaphragm Sennheiser MKH=A0
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
=A0 Tom:
A cello is a fairly loud instrument, especially when it is little over a fo=
ot away from a mic.Therefore, you probably can't hear the self-noise of tha=
t mic in that studio clip, but I'm fairly sure that it would be fairly obje=
ctionable in a quiet nature setting.
The data sheet for the TSB-165A alludes to a noise floor of 28 dBA, which i=
s 12 dB higher than the minimum that most nature recordists will tolerate.
Note that you will also need a portable recorder that supplies phantom powe=
r and that has realtime MS decoding built-in so that you can monitor the ac=
tual soundstage while you are recording. The Tascam DR70-D has those capabi=
lities, has quiet mic preamps and can be obtained for under $250.00.
I haven't tried them but Primo makes some cardiod capsules that have a much=
better noise floor than the TSB-165s, but you would need to adapt the 'ali=
ce' phantom-powered circuit to work with the EM182 capsule.http://www.primo=
mic.com/php/get_products_details.php?model=3DEM182
M/S mics sound too 'confined' to my ears since there is no inter-aural dela=
y encoded during the recording process to define the sounds in space, only =
intensity differences.This is fine in close-miked studio conditions, but is=
not optimal IMHO in the diffuse-field environment of the outdoors.The thre=
e mic elements of the 'Alice' mic must therefore be quite closely matched i=
n frequency response and level in order to preserve good imaging in the rec=
ording.
Personally, I like boundary-array mics that use omni capsules.They give a m=
uch nicer sound stage that sounds full with great detail with respect to so=
und sources within a wide space.
You can search the boundary mic newsgroup to get more information:
http://diystereoboundarymics.blogspot.com/If you use the Primo EM172 capsul=
es, there is no need for phantom power, they will work using only the built=
-in PIP (plug-in power) from recorders such as the Sony PCM M10. The DR70-D=
supplies PIP as well.
The only other recording method I would use is ORTF, employing very low-noi=
se studio cardiod mics (<11 dBA self-noise).The ORTF mic capsule spacing ca=
ptures the inter-aural time differences of the sound sources similar to how=
the ears do.
John Grzinich has done some lovely recordings using cardiod mics in an ORTF=
configuration:https://soundcloud.com/maaheli/padoj-rv-5-45am-dawn-chorus
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Padoj=E4rv 5:45am dawn chorus, April 22nd by maaheli
Pado lake is on the eastern side of the Meelva bog in Southeast Estonia.We=
arrived quite "late" to... | |
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http://maaheli.ee/main/
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john grzinich - sound + site + situational research
sound + site + situational research | |
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Another mic resource:http://www.wildmountainechoes.com/equipment/microphone=
s-nature-recording-ii-different-microphones-different-situations/
So, I hope that this helps answer some of your questions.
BR,Greg
From: " [naturerecordists]" <=
ahoogroups.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 3:08 PM
Subject: [Nature Recordists] Alice Microphone for Field Recording?
=A0 I tried doing some searches, but I haven't found anything really conc=
lusive to answer this question: Has anyone tried using an Alice microphone =
for field recording?
The reason I'm asking is that=A0Jules Ryckebusch posted a link to an Instru=
ctables he wrote that details his build of an Alice-based MS microphone:
Build the MS Alice Stereo Microphone
| |
| | | | Build the MS Alice Stereo Microphone This instr=
uctable will show you how to build and use an MS microphone. One of the cla=
ssic stereo microphone recording methods is the MS or Mid-Side microp... =
| |
| View on www.instructables.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
Jules stuck three=A0TSB-165 capsules in the mic body. One faces forward (pr=
oviding mid), and the other two facing sideways and wired in series to crea=
te a figure-eight mic (providing side). Each mic has its own Alice board, a=
lso installed in the mic body. The signals are fed out through a 5-pin XLR.
This would make for a very compact, very light MS setup for field recording=
. For travel or for locations that require long hikes to reach, there's a l=
ot of appeal here.
But it would help to know if anyone else had tried using an Alice microphon=
e for field recording, and what the potential pitfalls are.
Thanks,
Tom
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