My understanding of David's definition of the terms fetch and reach was tha=
t fetch means the furthest distance at which the system can record sounds a=
nd make them sound like they're close, while reach is just the furthest dis=
tant at which the systme can record sounds and make them sound audible, but=
not necessarily close.
Am I wrong?
Peter Shute
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of Klas Strandberg
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2013 10:36 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] speaking of fetch
>
>
>
> When David wrote "fetch", it became "reach out" in my mind,
> or "looking out", which has not so much with self noise to
> do, just as he says. Reach out, or look out, is to me more
> like what the SASS and other binaural mic's are doing.
> Another way that I use to describe it, is "acoustical
> presence filter", as such a mic sort of recreates "as it
> sounds over there".
>
> I have never found a good word for what directional mic's
> like 816's are doing, except "attenuating surrounding
> sounds". They are certainly not supposed to "recreate"
> anything "over there"
> but rather diminish what is around. A totally obvious use of
> directional mic's, and what they originally was made for, is
> killing room acoustics.
>
> Klas
>
> At 23:46 2013-03-12, you wrote:
> >Thanks Klaus,
> >Yes,"transparency" works well in my statement rewritten now as:
> >I include noise (microphone self-noise and recorder input
> noise) as a
> >factor in perspective, because it affects the perceived
> transparency of
> >a soundscape.
> >
> >This in effect limits the size of the practical area of high
> resolution
> >surrounding the microphone. The microphone polar paterns and array
> >configurations affect the shape of this area. What do we call this
> >practical area of high resolution?
> >
> >When David first mentioned "fetch" at first I thought that
> is what he
> >meant. Emotionally perhaps,I was thinking of the wind at sea
> - and the
> >fetch as distance or the area over which the wind blows to create an
> >ocean swell. So "fetch" could work well to describe
> distances and area
> >of soundscape recording.
> >
> >John Hartog
> >
> >
> >--- In
> <naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com> , Klas Strandberg
> <> wrote:
> > >
> > > John, I think I usually use "transparency" for what you
> mean. I then
> > > mean a combination of stereo picture and low noise.
> > > In my experience, microphones have different "transparencies"
> > > depending on the sound. Usually, I find a low noise M/S
> to be most
> > > transparent, but not always.
> > > This is difficult to talk about, as most of us do not only mean
> > > different things with words, but also have different emotional
> > > logics about it.
> > >
> > > Klas
> > >
> > >
> > > At 18:14 2013-03-12, you wrote:
> > > >David,
> > > >I finally understand what you mean by fetch now:) It is
> not how I
> > > >would use the term, but fine.
> > > >I include noise as a factor in perspective, because it
> affects the
> > > >perceived soundscape, but that is also just me.
> > > >
> > > >John Hartog
> > > >
> > > >--- In
> <naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com> , "Avocet" <brini@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > John,
> > > > >
> > > > > Apologies for labouring the point again but "fetch"
> is all about
> > > > > acoustic perspective, not noise.
> > > > >
> > > > > > narrow angled stereo using two cardioid Rode NT1A's with
> > > > > > self-noise of 5dB;
> > > > >
> > > > > No useable mic has an excess noise over thermal of 5dB. This
> > > > > figure is claimed as a world record by B&K for one of their
> > > > > special instrumentation mics.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ill-defined noise figures are misleading. Sennheiser quote
> > > > > around 23dB
> > > > > ITU-R468 weighting which many other mics can't get near.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd take the mic hiss down using my algorithm on
> Audacity unless
> > > > > it sounded like part of the soundscape.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now for the wildlife answer. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > > Let's say we are recording from the center of a meadow
> > > > > > surrounded by trees and it is dawn on a spring
> morning and we
> > > > > > are interested in a particular sound we can faintly
> hear in the distance.
> > > > >
> > > > > What you don't quote is the acoustic background noise in the
> > > > > setup like tree noise. Unless it is considerably
> lower than the
> > > > > faint sound, you won't get much anyway. If it is faint to the
> > > > > ears, it will be fainter to any mic.
> > > > >
> > > > > None of this is what you are asking - so -
> > > > >
> > > > > If the sound is faint to the ears it will be fainter
> to any mic rig.
> > > > > What a good fetch gives is a closer perspective against the
> > > > > ambient sounds and reverberation - if that is what
> the recordist wants.
> > > > >
> > > > > What I would do is to listen to all three rigs and
> choose what
> > > > > sounds best. I would probably choose the Jeklin
> simply because
> > > > > it used Sennheiser mics which would survive rain. :-) Second
> > > > > would be the crossed cardioids which will have a similar
> > > > > perspective at bird frequencies, and avoid the
> hypercardiod with
> > > > > its annoying rear lobe picking up tree noise from the
> rear. Two
> > > > > with two rear lobes would be needed for stereo of
> course. If I
> > > > > could baffle off the rear lobes, it may be useable,
> but the only hope of getting a "specimen"
> > > > > recording would be with a rifle mic like the MKH-816 in mono.
> > > > >
> > > > > The intervening trees would probably disperse the
> call. I spent
> > > > > a summer trying to get a clean woodpecker drumming in my
> > > > > woodland on 150 metre cables. I could fetch it in at a
> > > > > reasonable level with rifle mics, but the reverb from
> the trees
> > > > > muddled the drumming. I got the blighter last year when it
> > > > > drummed on a tree across my car park at 60 metres
> using the fetch of my 416's.
> > > > > http://www.stowford.org/recordings.htm#woodpeckerbeech
> > > > >
> > > > > David
> > > > >
> > > > > David Brinicombe
> > > > > North Devon, UK
> > > > > Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a sound is worth a
> > > >thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > > email:
> > > website: www.telinga.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a sound is worth
> a thousand
> >pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> email: <telinga%40bahnhof.se>
> website: www.telinga.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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