Randy Perretta wrote
Good point about Logic. I use it for efficient workflow with Final Cut and=
Shake. I don't take on a lot of clients (very few - I have a life)
JL} well that's good, maybe I'm a bit sad in that respect, a bit too focuse=
d
on getting what i think are great sounding FX to various Libraries that sel=
l
my stuff. Plus keeping my Video/Film clients happy with my sound designs.
Hey my bad. [btw no sarcasm]
but the steady ones are video post. I'm trying to build up a library of
found audio stock for them and my own composing work. Never settled on a
samplitude style app. Tried Peak for a while. Workflow issues from passing=
files around rather than direct import and sync my be offset some by
recording focused apps.
JL} It sounds like you want to use/ are comfotable with Mac apps, as it
happens, I am slightly more happy with PC apps, no big deal ,both are
fine/rubbish IMO. But it does mean i have FAR more choice as a PC user.
IMO on the Mac, Reaper is the best for what i think are your needs.
http://www.cockos.com/reaper/download.php
Peak is pretty basic/limited, PT is Very powerful but expensive & ultimatel=
y
a sound mangling monster, Logic, DP are fine for music- but not what you
need, I reckon. P-tools can do everything, but rather badly, slowly and wit=
h
errors.
I think that as more of the processing quality is plugin related, the lines=
may blur.
JL} yes agreed, most apps, even PT don't f**-up the sound very much. IE
hardly worth bothering about, too much
Sonoris Dither or any of a variety of good plugins can make quite a
difference regardless of hosts but it's a real caveat emptor - bad plugins=
make bad recording. I'm going to try Izotope Rx just to see how it handles=
undamaged material - the same algorithms should be pretty effective.
JL} IMO, Izotope Rx is for sure good, but probably a bit less good than is=
built into Audition.
I think the real deal is a good pre. The Otaris I'm using are NE5534 based=
,
state of the art when the consoles they went in came out - about 18 years
ago :) Next generation (90's) from the 5532 which saw service in a lot of=
consoles and pres in the 80's. i have the 5534 data sheet and could
calculate Ein and CMRR off of the schematic and that but I'll just wait and=
upgrade to Millennia Media in the spring. That'll make a difference for
sure. Noise certainly isn't audible without looking so at least they're
working for now from a subjective sense.
Randy
Well the NE5534 op-amps are petty fine in a way ( if memory serves about
5nv/root Hz, noise, which means it makes a great Summing amp, but as a mic=
amp, no-way -sorry.
A resonable transformer front end, {quite possibly followed by a NE5524}, o=
r
a few matched pair transistors, or a more modern mic-amp IC (as is in the
Millennia Media & other good stuff) will get 1nv/root Hz or even less.
I fear you are getting what may be considered great perfomance for close
miced music recording but no way "state of the art" low noise gain, as is
needed for Nature recording.
John L
--- On Sun, 11/29/09, John Lundsten <> wrote:
> From: John Lundsten <>
> Subject: Re: Fw: [Nature Recordists] diy mic outdoor enclosure
> To:
> Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 1:18 PM
> Randy Perretta wrote
>
> Thanks to all for the good advice and the points that made
> me think.
>
> JL} Yes for sure "Nature recording" has "special"
> requirements far removed
> from the design criteria for good music studio stuff.
>
> Good point about 24 bit. Bit resolution is much better at
> low levels.
>
> To answer your questions...
>
> For pres, I use Otari mic/line pres pulled from spare
> boards for my console.
> Either Lynx PCI or Lexicon Lambda interfaces depending on
> how much I want to
> lug around that day. A Neumann summer on the back end.
>
> JL} I'm not familiar with the Otari mic/line pres, can you
> tell us what EIN
> (noise figures) they have & the CMRR (common mode
> rejection Ratio) at
> various frequencies, or how "well balanced" they are?
>
> IMO this stuff is critical to get the best out of fine but
> rather low output
> Ribbon mics.
> Must say i am very enamoured of what ribbons can do, and
> the idea that if
> only one could give them a hi gain / low noise Mic pre,
> (etc) they may well
> give the best sound in many applications.
>
> <snip> I do post at the studio in Logic.
> JL} seems an odd choice to me, IMO it's great at MIDI &
> Music scores, (which
> I don't understand at all well, to may regret) but as to
> it's Audio
> capabilities, well, not good, err quite bad IMO, but hey if
> it works for
> you, YMMV.
>
> Makes me wonder, how the rest of the folk here pull that
> one signal of
> interest out of the mud...
> Randy
>
> JL} Adobe Audition vers3, IMO forget Sequencers, fine as
> they maybe, that
> have "Audio bolted-on", for a full-on, micro precision
> treatment of audio AA
> is the best, and Samplitude is pretty good at this stuff
> too.
> John L
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 11/29/09, Rob Danielson <>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Rob Danielson <>
> > Subject: Re: Fw: [Nature Recordists] diy mic outdoor
> enclosure
> > To:
> > Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 7:38 AM
> >
> > At 11:57 PM +0000 11/28/09, John Lundsten wrote:
> > >>"Rob Danielson" wrote
> > >
> > >>>RODE D-PowerPlug seems like a good option
> ....
> > >>>As a phantom-powered, 20dB gain
> preamp,the
> > D-PowerPlug isn't
> > >>>overly quiet (-116 dBu A weighted), but
> > perhapsquiet enough for
> > >>>your ribbon mics.
> > >
> > >>This maybe a good option but I have my doubts.
> I
> > would be
> > >>interested in a comparison between a 24bit
> > recording of the ribbon
> > >>mics one with the Rode D & the other
> without
> > but raised 20dB in
> > >>post. My suspicion is that so long as there is
> good
> > low level info
> > >>as you get with 24bit, just raising the may be
> very
> > low lever
> > >>recording may well give lower noise &
> otherwise
> > give as
> > >>good if not better results.
> > >>The thing is ribbon mics don't really have a
> noise
> > figure, the
> > >>noise you endup with will be down to the
> basic
> > thermal noise of the
> > >>source Z and how "well balanced" the system
> is. IE
> > there will be
> > >>signals at the micro-volt level you wish to
> drag up
> > in level, so
> > >>RF, hum etc picked up on the cable needs to
> be
> > exceptionally low,
> > >>compared to a more robust signal level.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>John Lundsten
> > >
> >
> > Hi John-
> > I think you're right. Adding lower quality pres
> up-stream
> > from his
> > recorder would likely introduce more noise than
> > necessary. What
> > external mic pre or recorder are you using Randy?
> >
> > With mic sensitivity of only -56 dB +/- 2 dB (0
> dB=3D1V/Pa)
> > ~1.6mV/Pa?
> > and recording ambience in quiet natural locations,
> don't
> > you think
> > most of the noise will stem from the mic pre? This
> seemed
> > to be the
> > case in a couple of experiments Curt and Mike shared
> with
> > me, but I
> > had no way to know for sure.
> >
> > Are you getting sufficient monitoring levels in the
> field,
> > Randy? If
> > not, it might be better to add some amplification to
> the
> > headphone
> > output. If you don't have a great quality pre to
> continue
> > your
> > experiment with, maybe you could borrow one and crank
> the
> > line-input
> > gain on the recorder too for more sound file
> saturation to
> > see if
> > this helps. Rob D.
> >
> > =3D =3D =3D
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer
> via
> > Bernie Krause
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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> Date: 11/29/09
> 07:49:00
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via
> Bernie Krause
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
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