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Re: Using Line Input/Ext Pre (was Olympus LS-10)

Subject: Re: Using Line Input/Ext Pre (was Olympus LS-10)
From: "Philip Tyler" macmang4125
Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:13 am ((PDT))
Thanks Rob, I was enquiring as there have been a number of people looking at 
using external pre-amps in an effort to improve the performance of some of the 
solid state recorders around or that they already own.


Now if they ever need to replace their recorder with a new one, and as they are 
already in possession of a reasonable 'low noise' mic pre-amp, then it might be 
more cost effective to buy one of the less expensive recorders and continue to 
use their current mic pre-amp. So I was thinking that some indication the 
device delivers on its line-in might prove useful? (I like to keep in mind that 
there are a number of enthusiasts that pursue their hobby on a 'tight' budget 
and it may be that the difference in price between the various recorders can 
make a big difference to them, also not forgetting size.)


I agree that the line-in 'should' produce decent results, but you can never be 
too sure due to some of the shenanigans some manufacturers get up to :-))


Another thing I am beginning to see as an advantage to these 'point-and-shoot' 
style recorders is the versatility they can offer. I am a fan of the MZ RH1 due 
to its small size, but it lacks microphones. So having a device that would 
allow you to go into the field which you can use hand held to capture material 
when you were not after 'ultimate' quality.. But would then lend itself to 
being used with an external pre when you wanted to say 'take more care' over 
what you were recording would seem an ideal tool.


I for one often go birdwatching, and carrying a tripod and telescope over my 
shoulder and a pair of binoculars around my neck, don't fancy adding a 
recording kit as well as I walk around. But something like the Olympus which 
would slip into a shirt pocket by the looks of it would be great. Ideally I 
would like it to be a dual purpose device so on those occasions when I wanted 
to record an ambience using low noise microphones it was able to deliver the 
goods.  It would also serve as a memo recorder, which I carry anyway, to record 
the birds seen on my wanderings.


But at the moment my Sony MZ RH1 is still going strong so I wont be buying 
anything new for a while :-(


Phil

----- Original Message ----
From: Rob Danielson <>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, 27 March, 2008 6:34:11 AM
Subject: [Nature Recordists] Re: Using Line Input/Ext Pre (was Olympus LS-10

                At 6:49 PM +0000 3/26/08, Phil Tyler wrote:
>Excellent info Raimund!
>
>Is there any merit in giving results for the line input? The reason 
>I ask is that there seem to
>be a number of people using separate mic pre-amps and the info might 
>be useful?
>
>Phil
>

Hi Phil--
Its always smart to ask and confirm, but the engineering should be 
fairly straight-forward for Olympus and the other manufacturers to 
provide very low-noise performance using the -10dB "line" input set 
at unity gain. To match FR2-LE or Hi-MD performance, one would need 
an external pre with comparable noise performance and the cost of 
these is as much or more than the recorders.  If you have SD MP-2 or 
Mix Pre that you aren't using, hook it up to the line input on an H2 
and you _should_ have a very high quality combo. As a reference, the 
lower cost portable pres folks are suggesting have noise performance 
around that of the LS-10 so there's not much point in that route if 
lower noise is sought. A good percentage of the pres have only 40dB 
gain which many would find too low for nature recording.

Based on Raimund's noise spec for the LS-10, one would need mics with 
around 15dB(A) self- noise or lower to hear the noise from the 
LS-10's mic pre at maximum gain. That number drops to around 12dB(A) 
for Hi-MD and the FR2-LE's pre noise is likely to be inaudible with 
quietest mics we typically use.

It adds bulk, but one can use a Rolls PB224 portable phantom supply 
and connect lower-noise mics like the AT-3032's to the 3.5mm mic 
input. The recorder's noise would be audible with these mics but the 
noise performance should be much improved compared to that of mics 
with >16dB(A) self-noise.  Rob D.
-- 


    
                                                                                
        






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