Paul--
I appreciate that is frustrating to invest a good deal of money and
fall short of the noise-performance one has in mind. Think of it as
a recording system: the mics must have sufficiently low self-noise
and the recorder's mic pre must have about 10 dB(A) less noise to not
also contribute noise.
"Is the D50's mic pre adding noise? Perhaps Oryoki or others know of
high gain comparison tests using very low noise mics that you could
study. The two reviews I read were more misleading than helpful if I
try to apply them to my experiences with nature recording. The advice
you'll often get on this list is to not buy any recorder until one
confirms that others have used it under similar conditions/gear with
good results. Noise performance and other key features of the newer,
hand-held units vary dramatically so its become even more important
to slow down and study the options starting with mics and array
choices, and delay the recorder decision until those are more certain.
Is the self-noise of your mics low enough? For the ME66, Sennheiser
specifies 10 dB(A) self noise. To compute the V63M's self-noise, one
can take the manuf's signal-to-noise ratio, "74dB (Ref. 1Pa
A-weighted)" and subtract that from 94 dB(A) to get the self-noise,
which would be 20dB(A). The VXM63's self noise is quite likely higher
than that of your Sony's mic input. The ME66's self noise _could_ be
lower than that of Sony's mic input.
I wouldn't suggest spending money on an external pre. Do you want to
be able to record in stereo? Do you want to record ambience? Do you
want a stereo parabolic mic? Do you want a recorder/system you can
grow with?
Recordists have reported that the ME66 has better noise performance
on phantom power. If you are happy using your ME66, you could try
powering it with a $70USD Rolls PB244 Portable Phantom unit. That
unit would also allow you to test other low noise mics on the
recorder to see if its up to your standards. You are probably not
going to get low noise performance out of your VXM63. Rob D.
At 1:04 PM +0000 2/16/08, texdig (Paul) wrote:
>Hello Rob/Phil/others,
>
>Have a Sennheiser ME-66, a 1" diaphragm MXL V63M Condensor (for
>ambience and voice over), some cheap lavs (to be upgraded)
>
>I connected the ME-66 to one leg of a Y-adaptor in recorder's mic-
>in...placed mic under pillows. At highest record level, meter showed
>20dB on mic'd channel... -35dB on the open channel (recorder's self
>noise).
>
>Headphone monitoring: mic'd channel 'sounded' 2x louder and of
>a 'rougher' nature ...like rain on a window versus the Sony's
>smooth 'rain on a solid roof'.
>
>So I need to be willing to shell out for very quiet mics before
>expecting magic from super-quiet external pre-amps ???
>
>...darn! I just had my eye on a snazzy Sign Video ENG-44
>mixer! ...unnecessary candy???
>
>You're quickly getting my thinking straightened out, thank you!
>
>(will restructure my needs and look for suggestions of quiet mic
>capsules...for parabolic)
>
>- paul
>
>--- In
><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>=
m,
>Philip Tyler
><> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul
>>
>> What microphones are you using? It would help to know.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Paul Slabaugh <>
>> To:
>><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>=
om
>> Sent: Saturday, 16 February, 2008 3:25:08 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Nady DMP-2 phantom mic preamp
>>
>> Thank you Rob, that's good info about gain requirements. I do not
>trust the specs ...they're just too good and 50db gain is probably
>> into it's distortion levels... nice specs are likely measured at
>lower gain settings. Incomplete info on this item is the deal killer.
>Manufacturer doesn't even list the product on their site anymore. Too
>fishy.
>>
>> You ask, do I need pre-amps. Yes, I want line level to avoid the
>mic pre's in my Sony PCM D50 ...though their circuit noise has a
>smooth far off ocean quality, it is very much there at high recording
>settings. Clean line levels would bump up that S/N ratio. That is why
>I am returning a $300 (overpriced! ) BeachTek dual phantom xlr box
>because it is passive ...no amplification. I just want clean
>amplification ...seems that paying extra mostly gets you extra non
>essential fluff on these devices. Until you pay enough for marketing
>fluff AND good circuit (Shure's or Sound Designs) the important specs
>just aren't that great. I'd be happy with a clean circuit in a rusty
>can ...hobbyists build such circuits fairly cheap. This new recorder
>I have takes care of the extras like limiting tremendously well as it
>simultaneously records lower level tracks and instantly uses them if
>things get loud.
>>
>> I just want a hole in...clean amp... hole out ! ...will keep
>looking.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Rob Danielson <>
>> To: naturerecordists@ yahoogroups. com
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:58:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Nady DMP-2 phantom mic preamp
>>
>> At 2:47 PM -0800 2/15/08, Paul Slabaugh wrote:
>> >After blowing alot on good recorders and mics, I am reduced to
>> >finding cheap mic preamps ... after MUCH research, here is the
>most
>> >capable, yet cheap, dual preamp, phantom powered, limited...yada
>> >yada ...at 1/12 the price of the tremendously fine Sound Design
>> >models
>> ><<http://www.audio->http://www.audio- discounters. com/dmp-2.
>>html><http://www.audio->http://www.audio-
>discounters. com/dmp-2. html
>> >
>> >Just how BAD can this Nady item be ? ... opinions anyone?
>> >
>> >-paul
>>
>> Neat find Paul. As you are probably aware, there are very few
>> battery-powered mics pres with phantom at this price point. 50 dB
>> gain is on the low side for nature recording-- 60dB is closer to
>the
>> desired minimum in my experience. Based on the spec sheet I found,
>> there are no noise specs supplied and no phantom voltage specified.
>> Your mics may or may not require higher voltage, even 48 volts.
>None
>> of this means you shouldn't give it test. If you order it from
>> Sweetwater, they'll usually let you return if it it doesn't meet
>your
>> needs. Are you sure you need a preamp and not just a portable
>> phantom power supply? These are available at high (no risk) quality
>> for $50. Rob D.
>>
>> Nady DMP-2 spec sheet:
> > <http://img3.>http://img3. musiciansfriend. com/dbase/ pdf/man/m_
>180156.pdf
>
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