No can of worms!
The only thing I have been saying over and over again, is that a microphone
for nature sound recordings should have such a high output, that it is
microphone noise that always dominate over the input amp noise.
So? Should I boost the telinga output even more? Can all inputs handle such
a high output, when the sound pressure level is high? (At high frequencies,
with a parabol, the output from a Telinga can be very high already, and the
use of a -20db attenuation is imperative!)
It is difficult to compare the two tracks from Martyn. They are not the
same level. But obviously the noise level is higher at one of the tracks.
Martyn - set the Telinga switch in mono position! We will loose some high
frequency content, but the tracks will be more comparable. It is only good
if there is some background noise, like from a road or something. Then one
can set the level equally on both tracks.
Using my old Tascam DAP1 vs. my lab preamp, they sound exactly the same.
On both of them I can easily hear the difference between the self noise of
a MKH20 (10dbA) and the self noise of a Em23 (14 dbA).
Does it mean that the input amp of my ancient DAP1 is so much better then
the input amp of Martyns PMD 670?? Why? It doesn't make sense. Why should
Marantz make such a bad input amp?
Or is it the Marantz phantom power that cause problems?
Klas.
But obviously the input sensitivity of the PMD670 is too low. At 22:34
2005-06-19, you wrote:
>Klas, I just helped to do a little write-up for Electronic Musician
>comparing some of the latest recorders. We did three different tests,
>recording some dialog, a snare drum, and some night ambience. The
>night ambience was recorded with a pair of Earthwork omni's.
>
>Those are pretty quiet mics, so what we were hearing in noise
>difference was mainly the input stage (instead of saying just mic
>preamp, since the A/D convertor can theoretically be significant to
>what you hear as well).
>
>There was a HUGE difference. I won't propose to know exactly what I
>was hearing, but the 722 and the Fostex FR2 were fairly quiet, and
>both Marantz units that were tested were VERY noisy. Hiss. Lots of hiss.
>
>I honestly don't know where and at what stage it's all happening. Is
>the unit just adding additional noise?
>
>When we did the dialog test, since the dialog was loud enough, the
>noise on each of the devices wasn't really an issue, the noise floor
>was down there enough that it didn't really matter.
>
>I'm not an overtly technical person, so I won't argue too much, but
>there is most certainly a difference between a minidisc recorder, a
>Sony DAT, my 722, my HHB, all of them. A lot of time too I notice not
>even so much a 'level 'difference in the noise, but a different sonic
>character, what seems 'smoothest', less distracting.
>
>The thing is, you take a very quiet mic, like the Telinga, Schoeps,
>etc. But then to record something quiet, you're applying 60dB of gain
>or more, so that noise floor is coming up, but also the device starts
>to add it's own noise, and I do think it's cumulative.
>
>Anyway, not to open this can of worms again....
>
>Tim
>
>On Jun 19, 2005, at 9:37 AM, Klas Strandberg wrote:
>
> > Don't understand it....
> > The dominant noise should be the Telinga noise....?
> >
> > Could anyone connect one channel of the Telinga to the 722 and the
> > other to
> > - say - a Tascam DAP1?? And record .Wav??
> > If it shows a significant difference, I have to excuse myself for
> > all I
> > have written on this list about preamps. Jesus....
> >
> > Klas.
> >
> > At 18:21 2005-06-19, you wrote:
> > >I too am amazed at how quiet the preamps are on my 722. I honestly
> > >don't like the sound quality as much as the Lunatec preamp, but it's
> > >probably quieter, just somehow not as 'lush' (But it's close). But
> > >for a built-in preamp on a portable device, it's as good as I've
> > >certainly ever seen. It's a fantastic recorder.
> > >
> > >I still can't decide to hang onto my old DAT gear, or sell it off.
> > >It's honestly worth so little now, I have a hard time justifying
> > >selling it.
> > >
> > >Another very nice recording.
> > >
> > >Tim
> > >
> > >
> > >On Jun 19, 2005, at 8:51 AM, Martyn Stewart wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have been asked a few times whether there is any filtering on
> > the
> > > > White-crowned sparrow recording I posted yesterday, I can honestly
> > > > say no,
> > > > this is in the raw. This file shows the capabilities of the 722
> > and
> > > > its
> > > > pre-amps. I have just posted another file I made this morning out
> > > > chasing
> > > > Savannah Sparrows in an urban park at about 5:00am. Unfiltered.
> > > > It's a long file about 1:26 sec.
> > > > http://www.naturesound.org/Sound%20Files/Savannah%20Sparrow%
> > 20WA.mp3
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Martyn
> > > >
> > > > Martyn Stewart
> > > > Bird and Animal Sounds Digitally Recorded at:
> > > > http://www.naturesound.org
> > > >
> > > > N47.65543 W121.98428
> > > > Redmond. Washington. USA
> > > > Make every Garden a wildlife Habitat!
> > > >
> > > > 425-898-0462
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Microphones are not ears,
> > > > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > > > A listening room is not nature."
> > > > Klas Strandberg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >"Microphones are not ears,
> > >Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > >A listening room is not nature."
> > >Klas Strandberg
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> > S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> > Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> > email:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Microphones are not ears,
> > Loudspeakers are not birds,
> > A listening room is not nature."
> > Klas Strandberg
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>"Microphones are not ears,
>Loudspeakers are not birds,
>A listening room is not nature."
>Klas Strandberg
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email:
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