Philip,
A
couple of corrections to your reply. It was Kim Lowe, not Tim Lowe who was the
then head of the ABBBS. The study that he did was the result of the banding
scheme being transferred from CSIRO “Wildlife” to the then Australian National
Parks and Wildlife Service (now Environment Australia. This resulted in a change
of address on the bands from “Write CSIRO Australia” to, on the smaller bands,
“Box 8, 2601”. The larger bands also have “Write” and “Australia” on them. The
study, as you rightly point out, was to find out the reporting rate of the
different addresses on the bands. I don’t know if Kim replicated the experiment
in Melbourne but as far as I am aware he only did it on starlings in the ACT.
One of my former CSIRO colleagues was shooting large numbers of roosting
starlings and this is what gave Kim the idea. He used equal numbers of the bands
and drove around various Canberra suburbs at night throwing the birds on
to well used bus stops. He wasn’t aware of where I lived at the time and
was surprised when I phoned him the next morning to say my wife had picked up a
dead banded starling at the bus stop in front of my house. I am not sure of the
final outcome but think the numbers were reasonably even for the number of bands
reported but I am not sure of the overall number of birds actually
reported.
We
also tried the same experiment with Silver Gulls on Five Islands off Wollongong
where we again banded equal numbers of chicks with the different addresses. I
think this also gave a similar ratio of returns.
Cheers,
Mark
From: Philip
Veerman [
Sent: Sunday, 29 March 2015
2:00 PM
To: 'Canberra Birds'
Cc: 'ABBBS'
Subject:
RE: [canberrabirds] Tagged Magpie
Yes
thanks Mark, Marg, Maryanne & Denise for the information. No
disagreement from me on any of this. I feel sure these issues have all been done
before. My thoughts on this are not specific (or even mainly, about
magpies). I guess it comes down to priorities of the ABBB Scheme. I also suspect
that the idea of banding rehabilitated birds is inefficient, in that there
simply is not the quantity or consistency of individuals to justify the
administrative or travel effort (especially for common and well known sedentary
birds like magpies). The question arises about tracking survival: well one thing
is sure, in most cases, by not banding them we will continue to not have
information about this question. About non return or low rate of return, well
that is not specific to rehabilitated birds: For many years Steve Wilson &
team banded thousands of honeyeaters at New Chums road etc. Their write up of
the project indicated only one bird was ever recaught and from nearby (although
they got lots of repeat captures and good information on residents like
thornbills & scrub-wrens). The idea about it could have
resulted in compromising someone’s study is a
fair concern and a tricky one, if it should ever arise. Mark's odd story
about the magpie is more about problems of taming a bird that easily gets to
like people and people who like to complain (that case seems an odd thing to
complain about but who can predict that), rather than about the band. As Daryl
Jones' book shows, there is no shortage of PR problems about the magpie. There
is also a spirited campaign by some people to stop banding, although that is
mainly directed against the use of leg flags on waders and the capture method
with cannon nets. I am not in agreement with the basis of that campaign as I see
it as based on misinformation. About the issue of finding tagged dead birds. I
recall a story (long ago) of Tim Lowe when he was with ABBBS, dropping lots
of banded dead House Sparrows around Melbourne as an experiment to find out the
rate at which people find and report these bands. I guess that experiment only
needed to be done once.......
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Clayton
Sent: Sunday, 29 March 2015 11:45 AM
To: 'Philip Veerman';
'Denise Kay'; 'Canberra Birds'
Cc: 'ABBBS'
Subject: RE:
[canberrabirds] Tagged Magpie
To
reply to Philip’s question, the bird was not given an ABBBS band as there is no
official project on banding rehabilitated birds in the local area. All ABBBS
bands can only be used on officially approved studies. The plastic band, as I
noted in my earlier email, was technically placed on the bird “illegally”. Again
it is the ABBBS that issues colour banding authorities for the use of colour
bands, patagial wing tags and nasal saddles. This is to avoid any potential
conflict between researchers who may inadvertently use the same colour
combinations. Problems have arisen in the past where this has happened.
Theoretically what should have happened in this case was for the colour band to
be removed before the magpie was released. I know that the carers are interested
to know what happened to their birds but it could have resulted in compromising
someone’s study, especially if it involved a lot of other colour banded
rehabilitated birds. In this case however, to the best of my knowledge, there is
no study in the local area on magpies.
It
is highly unlikely that the ABBBS will endorse any future program of banding
rehabilitated birds either locally or elsewhere in Australia. As mentioned
by Marg Peachy, there are not too many chances to get genuine recoveries (see
next paragraph). There have been quite a few studies in Australia where banding
of rehabilitated birds has been done. I think it has really only been successful
on larger seabirds. I will contact the banding office to see if they can provide
references to any papers on the subject and will pass the information to the
list.
I
also know from experience what problems can be caused by a banded rehabilitated
bird. Many years ago when I was banding in my yard a neighbour said that there
was magpie sitting on a window ledge at their house. I duly went and caught a
perfectly healthy young magpie, put a band on it and let it go. It did
everything one would expect of a wild bird. Several days later I had two
somewhat irate people turn up at my front door demanding to know why I had
banded “THEIR” magpie that they had spent some time rehabilitating. This bird
was so tame, similar to the bird that started this discussion, that for the next
month or so, it was reported to the banding scheme just about every day from
properties over northern Kaleen. I am not sure what happened to the bird but
have a sneaky feeling the band was removed! Similar situations have happened a
number of times in other localities – the birds make a real nuisance of
themselves, usually demanding to be fed.
Hopefully
this will answer the question that Philip has asked. If people want any more
information please feel free to contact me and I will do my best to provide an
answer.
Cheers,
Mark
From: Philip
Veerman
Sent: Sunday, 29 March 2015 9:55 AM
To: 'Denise Kay';
'Canberra Birds'
Subject: RE: [canberrabirds] Tagged
Magpie
That is
all reasonably sensible and understandable. My question is if they are given a
plastic band, why aren't they also given an official ABBBS band? To meet the
official protocols. I remember intentions from the wildlife foundation to start
doing that 30 years ago. That would also give greater chance of getting more
information (even though magpies don't move far).
-----Original Message-----
From: Denise Kay
Sent: Sunday, 29 March 2015 8:51 AM
To: Canberra
Birds
Subject: Fwd: [canberrabirds] Tagged Magpie
Please see the response from Wildcare re: young Magpie.
The end result of raising orphaned/ ‘ rescued “ magpies
once released is mostly unknown by those who raise them
.
We would all love to know how they cope or indeed if they
cope. I for one would like to see a pilot program that allows us to tag these
birds ( for perhaps two years ) if only to know if they survive or not.
Denise
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds]
Tagged Magpie
Date:
29 March 2015
7:53:12 am AEDT
Hi Denise,
Yes that is a Wildcare juvenile magpie released in Carwoola
in November, so good to hear it is doing well. I actually got a phone call
this afternoon from another person in Carwoola letting me know it has been
sighted as well.
The magpie has a slight disability (falls over occasionally),
but is otherwise OK. It still visits the Wildcare member who raised it
(also in Carwoola), but is now hanging out with a bachelor group in the area.
I'm not surprised it is following Wayne's son around as the Wildcare
member has 2 boys who helped with raising it.
We haven't banded all of our juvenile magpies, but started
doing some of them so we could track their progress. Any further reports
on banded magpies would be much appreciated and they can send them to me
at
