canberrabirds

Avicide. And infanticide .......going off topic........

To: 'Cog line' <>
Subject: Avicide. And infanticide .......going off topic........
From: John Harris <>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 03:13:29 +0000

I almost posted a comment on new Year’s Eve that of all the interesting threads during 2014, (all of which I appreciate and am grateful for), the longest running thread appears to be the detailed linguistic discussion of avicide/ infanticide etc. I have read this thread with interest and enjoyed the discussion. And now it has crossed year’s end to continue in 2015!
Geoffrey and Philip are both very knowledgable people and they are both right – Geoffrey that infanticide has a technical legal meaning and Philip that it is commonly used in academic writing about zoology.
The point of course is that law and science are two of the many disciplines that develop in-house language, sometimes only to obfuscate, but mostly, as in the case of infanticde, to come up with a single word to label a concept important to the discipline concerned.
Much of the discussion lately has centred upon the exact limitations of the word infanticide when used in a technical ornithological context. What perhaps has been lost sight of is that in ordinary discussion among ordinary bird enthusiasts like me, the word is unnecessary and, as we have witnessed, can be confusing if we are not sure of its precise meaning. Simpler words are less confusing in normal conversation, and often more precise.
I for one would never use the word infanticide for just those reasons.  What is wrong with ’some birds kill their own young’  if that is exactly what we are talking about, or, ’some adult birds kill young birds’ or whatever. I for one would never say ‘some birds practise filial cannibalism’ but I would say ’some birds eat their own young’. The phrase says what I mean and besides, it has far fewer syllables!

  




From: Philip Veerman <>
Date: Friday, 2 January 2015 1:16 pm
To: chatline <>
Subject: [canberrabirds] Avicide. And infanticide .......going off topic........

This comment is about infanticide and really not much to do with Canberra birds. I think it fair to say that what Geoffrey has come up with is a use given to a word in just one context and needs to be considered within that context. There must be many words that have a legal meaning and related but different meanings in other ways. A word with similar meaning and derived from the same basis has an equally valid use in another context.
 
As far as I know infanticide is the word validly used for the phenomenon that always (or at least regularly) done by male lions when they take over a lion pride, after ousting the prior pride males. This is why males defend their pride so vigorously. Females initially do what they can to resist these takeovers, combined with attempts to hide their young, but it appears not to take long after their babies have been killed that they will accept the new male and start the whole process again. Some primates and no doubt other animals do similar behaviours. Now I wonder why did I bother to type all that? There are many Google references to this, when you type in lion & infanticide.... such as this one........
 
Philip
 

Infanticide (zoology)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lion cubs may be killed by males replacing other males in the pride.[1]

In animals, infanticide involves the killing of young offspring by a mature animal of its own species, and is studied in zoology, specifically in the field of ethology.Ovicide is the analogous destruction of eggs. Although human infanticide has been widely studied, the practice has been observed in many other species throughout the animal kingdom. These include microscopic rotifers, insects, fish, amphibians,birds and mammals.[2] Infanticide can be practiced by both males and females.

Infanticide caused by sexual conflict has the general theme of the killer (often male) becoming the new sexual partner of the victim's parent, which would otherwise be unavailable. This represents a gain in fitness by the killer, and a loss in fitness by the parents of the offspring killed. This is a type of evolutionary struggle between the two sexes, in which the victim sex may have counter-adaptations that reduce the success of this practice. It may also occur for other reasons, such as the struggle for food between females. In this case individuals may even kill closely related offspring.

Filial infanticide occurs when a parent kills its own offspring. This sometimes involves consumption of the young themselves, which is termed filial cannibalism. The behavior is widespread in fishes, and is seen in terrestrial animals as well.Human infanticide has been recorded in almost every culture. A unique aspect of human infanticide is selective infanticide based on gender.

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Dabb
Sent: Wednesday, 31 December 2014 3:40 PM
To:
Subject: FW: [canberrabirds] Avicide. When is a new word appropriate?

Well, as this is a discussion about words …..  ‘Infanticide’ was an offence introduced to mitigate the severity of the criminal law, and could be committed only by a woman in a certain situation.  The essence of it appears in the present Victorian provision –

 

There has been much recent debate about whether the offence should be retained and it has been abolished in some Australian jurisdictions.  The word can be used in a broader sense (generally confusingly, people liking the idea of such words for some reason)  but anyone advocating its use should be aware of the stricter meaning.  Why do you need a word anyway?  What is the word for someone who kills their lawyer or bank manager? 

 

From: Martin Butterfield
Sent: Wednesday, 31 December 2014 2:28 PM
To: n/a n/a
Cc: COG List
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Avicide. When is a new word appropriate?

 

If one wished to develop a less human focused word one could add "icide" to a latin word meaning offspring.  Consulting an on-line dictionary I got three words for offspring : foetus; fetus and subolis.   The use of foetus seems a tad confusing as in mammals it is now used mainly to cover young before birth.  

 

So perhaps "subolicide" would fit the bill (or indeed The Bill).

 

Martin


 

On 31 December 2014 at 07:14, Martin Butterfield <> wrote:

Fratricide - brother killing - would seem to be adopting a term usually referring to evilness by humans.  So why not adopt the term for humans killing their children "infanticide"?

 

Martin

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