OK, so it is now "no ifs, no maybes!!!" That is always a big call on
things related to bird distribution, when there are various
possibilities. Is there additional evidence? If this was a legal case,
what we have so far is "hearsay".
Why has this only become known in the last 3 weeks? That seems very
weird to me. The birds have been there for years. Or have I just missed
something? Mark now writes: Ask yourself the simple question ?why have
they NEVER been seen outside the FSW or generally off the two opposite
ponds where they have generally been recorded?. I don't need to ask
myself, I just looked at the last COG ABR CBN 36(1):9 that says "28
records from 5 grid cells, the largest increase since 2003-04" i.e. in
that year there was a bigger increase. So the "NEVER" Mark mentions,
simply is not correct. Assuming the ABR to be correct....... Even
without the additional locations, my answer is simple. It is a rare
species that prefers a particular kind of deep water that is not widely
available. As noted in Steve Wilson's book, they are recorded elsewhere
in the ACT. I have seen the species wild elsewhere (though not in the
ACT) so they do exist and do move around and why shouldn't they. My
observations are that the number seen there varies all the time over the
last several years, the last ABR supports this, that does not suggest a
once only release of a since static population. What is causing the
frequent reductions of the population if they are only released pets?
If it is confirmed by the person who released these ducks that they did
so, I would have no difficulty with the idea that some may have survived
there and maybe bred but it seems unlikely to be the only single source
of the ongoing population.
What was "I think people will find that Chris Davey and Peter Fullagar
will agree with this statement" has now become stronger "I have already
asked Peter and Chris and they agree with me." Maybe Peter and Chris
should add what they can to this. I note that Chris Davey is credited as
the author of the ABR section on ducks and he is the COG President. If
Chris was aware of that this is a deliberately released population, it
seems (to understate it) very strange to me, for this information not to
be mentioned in the ABR (or have I missed it, was it mentioned in some
earlier year or other page?).
I agree with John's comment and I can't believe that the birds seen now
are released aviary birds the same ones supposedly released some time
prior to 2-7-1966 (45 years ago), as that is when they were first
recorded there. (Unless of course this restocking has happened many
times and what would be the motivation for someone to do that?). Just on
evidence so far available to me, at best they are the progeny of
released birds but I'm unconvinced.
Let us not get excited or personal about this, it is only a debate about
an idea about some birds. Don't start thinking I care. And I don't know
either.
Philip
-----Original Message-----
From: John Leonard
Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011 6:38 PM
To: Canberra Birds
Subject: Blue-billed Ducks
The key piece of information is the date of the release. These ducks
have been there ever since I have been in Canberra (1994) and if the
origin was aviary birds the birds there now must be the grand-duckings
at least. Even if the parents were pinioned the ducklings won't have
been and could easily have flown away at any time. Whatever their
origin, the birds that are there now are a self-sustaining population.
John Leonard
On 10 October 2011 17:48, Mark Clayton <> wrote:
> Philip,
>
>
>
> You can take it from me that Peter and Chris will back me on this. The
> birds on the Fyshwick Sewage Ponds are released aviary bred birds, no
> ifs, no maybes!!! I have already asked Peter and Chris and they agree
> with me. Ask yourself the simple question ?why have they NEVER been
> seen outside the FSW or generally off the two opposite ponds where
> they have generally been recorded?. Peter will also tell you that
> another species of rare duck were also released on the ponds!!! If you
> won?t believe me then ask him.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> From: Philip Veerman
> Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011 4:16 PM
> To:
> Subject: [canberrabirds] Blue-billed Ducks
>
>
>
> Sorry for needing to clarify even at the need to be tedious. As the
> "someone", I will say I then thought that Mark's earlier mention of
> this, was the only hint I had ever heard of that suggestion. It being
> a surprise suggestion to me and with me having no knowledge of this
> species being kept domestically, after all the years that those birds
> were there, it seemed odd and worthy of stronger evidence to support
> the idea.
>
>
>
> I did not say it was a rumour, I wrote: "Mark now raises as I suppose
> a rumour" - "I suppose a rumour", not that it is a rumour, this being
> the only set of words I could come up with and as modest as I could
> be, as there was not much information presented to go on. I credited
> Mark with the idea, simply because I knew of no other origin for the
> suggestion. That seems fair to me.
>
>
>
> I notice that Steve Wilson's book (the most obvious reference on such
> things) has no suggestion of this possible origin. It talks about two
> birds were noted at JWNP on 2-7-1966, since then they have been noted
> at other places but mainly at FSTW. Also that "individuals and small
> groups have remained for some months at times". That suggests many
> establishments of the species. That history does not disprove, but I
> reckon does not sit easily, with the idea of captive origins of this
> small group. Also I note that these birds (from my observations) are
> usually at the far side of the ponds and not easily approachable,
> which does seem odd for aviary bred birds.
>
>
>
> Mark's earlier message 30-9-2011 was After asking a few questions of
> people in the know (there are several duck experts locally) I am now
> 99% certain they were ?aviary? bred and released on the ponds. That
> to me is within reasonable definition of "I suppose a rumour" but
> sorry if Mark or others disagree. It is nowhere as definitive as the
> now written as a statement that these birds were introduced by a
> former aviculturalist many years ago. I think people will find that
> Chris Davey and Peter Fullagar will agree with this statement.
>
>
>
> Maybe Chris and Peter could add some insight to this, or simply ask
> the gentleman concerned to verify that he did release these birds
> there.
>
>
>
> Thanks to Mark for now having clarified to us of some additional
> basis, that it is something more than a supposed rumour. I'll keep the
> idea open. It is an interesting suggestion.
>
>
>
> Philip
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Clayton
> Sent: Monday, 10 October 2011 2:37 PM
> To:
> Subject: [canberrabirds] blue-billed ducks
>
>
>
> After an unsuccessful morning at Kelly?s looking for snipe (both
> varieties) Carole Elliott and I wandered over to the sewage ponds for
> a quick look. There were 2, possibly 3, Black-fronted Dotterels and
> what I assume given the size difference, a pair of Sharp-tailed
> Sandpipers on the first pond on the right walking down from the gate.
> This pond appears to be drying rapidly and was quite shallow. On the
> second pond on the left were 2 male Blue-billed Ducks and a possible
> third bird, a female, hidden amongst the Hardheads and grebes. As I
> noted in an earlier email, these birds were introduced by a former
> aviculturalist many years ago. I think people will find that Chris
> Davey and Peter Fullagar will agree with this statement as all three
> of us worked with the gentleman concerned so it is not a rumour that I
> have started as suggested by someone recently.
>
>
>
> Mark
--
John Leonard
Canberra
Australia
www.jleonard.net
I want to be with the 9,999 other things.
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