Musk Lorikeets in Sydney and species diversity

To: Peter Shute <>
Subject: Musk Lorikeets in Sydney and species diversity
From: storm <>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 04:11:34 +0000
hi Peter,

I don't know.

The current food shortage is effecting an unusually large area - they are
not usually range wide. However, if we had a more natural, ecologically
diverse range of species perhaps something would be flowering. As it is,
Forestry plant a restricted range of species. Of course, we also have
concreted large areas of the coast that would once have been various types
of forests.

So it's possible that less habitat destruction would still see widespread
starvation, but it's also possible that within the areas that are no longer
forested, there would be something that was flowering.

A diversely reforested east coast is a hypothetical place I'd like to see.
Of course, it will remain hypothetical.


On 19 December 2016 at 14:35, Peter Shute <> wrote:

> Storm, if there's a general food shortage at the moment, that would also
> be affecting trees previously in cleared areas if they were still there,
> wouldn't it? Ie we'd have more flying foxes, but they'd still be starving?
> Peter Shute
> Sent from my iPhone
> On 19 Dec. 2016, at 1:47 pm, storm <<mailto:
> >> wrote:
> Hi All
> The flying-foxes moved to Lachlan Swamp, CPT following the dispersal in
> The camp in Kareela started after the desal plant was constructed on the
> same block as the camp as Kurnell. Animals are slowly starting to use the
> camp at Kurnell again but it's not clear they will ever leave Kareela
> completely, despite the ongoing (though presently suspended because of the
> food shortage) dispersal action.
> There is a significant food shortage effecting the grey-headed flying-fox
> though the range from Melbourne to SEQ.  Where there is flowering, nectar
> flow is poor. This food shortage has seen numbers into care in excess of 5
> x the normal numbers coming into care over the last 6 weeks. Animals are in
> parts of the range associated with food shortage (western NSW/ Victoria/
> SA) Thousands of young have died. Hundreds of adults have died.
> Bringing this back to topic, the lack of flowering / poor quality
> flowering may also be driving the movement of the musk loris this season.
> Dr Peggy Eby discusses the food shortage in this article:
> due-to-loss-of-habitat-and-food/8044720
> She discusses the development of camps here
> camp-numbers-increasing/7462746
> Storm
> On 19 December 2016 at 05:53, Peter Shute <<pshu
> >> wrote:
> In the case of the flying foxes, it's a pity we don't know enough about
> their movements to pinpoint the lost habitat. People's anger at their
> presence could then be redirected to those involved in the clearing.
> I don't think many people are annoyed by lorikeets like they are by flying
> foxes. Provided they aren't right by their house, they're welcomed, and
> even then many are prepared to put up with the noise.
> Peter Shute
> Sent from my iPad
> > On 18 Dec. 2016, at 12:02 pm, Chris Lloyd <<mailto:
> >> wrote:
> >
> > If I was a betting man, that's where my money might be. The combination
> of Chris and Andy's greening of the city over the last 50+ years and the
> concomitant reduction in forestry cover on the slopes (particularly
> western) could be the reason. Somewhat ironic but not for long as LGAs move
> to shift the FF 'menace' such was the case in Sutherland and that pinnacle
> of Australian indigenous flora - the RBG.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Shute <m("","pshute");">>]
> > Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2016 6:10 AM
> > To: Andy Burton <<>>
> > Cc: Chris Lloyd <<>>;
> Birding Aus <<
> > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Musk Lorikeets in Sydney and species diversity
> >
> > This sounds like good news for Musk Lorikeets, but I'm wondering if the
> numbers visiting increasingly attractive Sydney suburbs might also be
> driven by deforestation elsewhere. That seems to be the situation with
> flying foxes.
> >
> > Peter Shute
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On 17 Dec. 2016, at 5:13 pm, Andy Burton <<
> com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Haha, I’ve been lurking Chris, and involved in other projects.
> >>
> >> Re the change in vegetation, particularly canopy:
> >>
> >> In the Lane Cove, Roseville, Lindfield, Killara area, especially around
> Fiddens Wharf Road, the timber getters had moved in during 1804 and had
> taken all the timber that they wanted by 1819. After this there were
> various horticultural and animal husbandry projects set up by individuals.
> Post WW2, the ridges were built on and ridgetop birds e.g.., White-throated
> Gerygone, disappeared. Where I live, on the ridge overlooking the short
> Blue Gum Creek tributary of the Lane Cove River, there were three small
> dairies and a rifle range alongside the creek. It is still possible to see
> where the rifle range existed until it was decommissioned in 1965. At the
> risk of stating the bleedin' obvious it is not possible to have a rifle
> range in the middle of a forest, and so it was not until 1965 that
> eucalyptus regrowth commenced. That forest is now dense and quite mature,
> as are the areas where the dairies (and their cattle) were. At about the
> same time many of the tributaries of the Willoughby, North Sydney, southern
> Kuingai and Ryde municipalities were reserved allowing for the regeneration
> of vegetation along these narrow reserves of the valley bottoms. At about
> the same time a local nursery must have marketed Flooded Gums Eucalyptus
> grandis to the local populace and so in places, that species has joined the
> regenerating Blackbutts and Blue create a new canopy. It is my
> belief that this is what has recently attracted Musk Lorikeets to the area
> and for a few years I have predicted that the species will become a common
> breeding resident throughout most of northern Sydney.
> >>
> >> Andy
> >
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