Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature Reserve take 2

To: Peter Shute <>
Subject: Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature Reserve take 2
From: Ian May <>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 08:31:24 +1100
Thanks Peter.  The line should read "5 attachments including two bands"

Peter Shute wrote:

Is there any chance we could see the photo of the wader with five flags, Ian? 
What species was it?

Can anyone tell me what the allowable limit is?

Peter Shute

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Oct 2014, at 5:03 pm, "Ian May" <> wrote:

We are in full agreement about habitat protection however, no matter
which way I look at it, I just cannot see how banding helps to save any

As a friend pointed out to me recently, comparing the impacts of call
playback and bird photography with the adverse impacts of bird banding,
canon netting, mist netting and leg flagging etc. is like comparing
being hit with a feather duster compared to a speeding Mack truck.

Recently I observed a photograph of a small wader with 5 flags and two
bands.  I have seen Curlew Sandpiper with 4 flags. There is a photograph
circulating of flagged and banded Spoon-billed Sandpiper chicks.  It
might be nice to know everywhere they go but surely such an endangered
small migratory bird should be protected to migrate unimpeded..   How
can banding a Spoon-billed Sandpiper chick help save them.  More likely,
these birds are doomed because of their handling and banding.

Many small waders populations are in decline.  I remember when
repeatable counts indicated most small wader populations were stable.
Red Knots and Curlew Sandpiper were widespread and common. While
obviously there are habitat protection issues too, dropping numbers of
these species closely correlate with the period when canon netting and
leg flagging commenced and the declining numbers correlate too.   Just a
coincidence?   I don't think so.

A high percentage (not a small percentage as we have been asked to
remember) of the Sanderling population in Southern Australia have been
leg flagged and their declining numbers also correlate closely with
numbers flagged.  12 months after flagging, retrap rates are minuscule
and the lost birds cannot be logically explained.

Ian May
St Helens Tasmania


g and Val Clancy wrote:

Hi all,

I have been banding birds since 1971 and as suggested I do think
carefully about the pros and cons of this activity.  I get sad when I
see people suggesting that we know all that we need to know from
banding when that is patently not the case.  We have only scratched
the surface when it comes to our understanding of Australia's birds
and their movements.  I am glad that people are compassionate enough
to be concerned about the birds' welfare as this is paramount in my
thoughts as well but please direct your concerns where they really
need to be directed - at the people clearing natural ecosystems, at
people shooting ducks for sport, at people who have cats and dogs that
are allowed to roam and kill our wildlife etc..  I know that some
people have witnessed accidents during banding activities and this has
coloured their view for life but the rare case where a bird suffers
from banding should not mean that it is not a legitimate and humane
activity.  I hold an animal care and ethics approval for my banding
and I am held accountable for any losses.  People who do not like
birds being banded are entitled to their opinion but, like Martin,
please find out all you can about the positives before condemning the
people who are giving large amounts of their own time and money to
research the birds so that they can be saved.  The winter movement of
birds such as Grey Fantails, Golden Whistlers, Striated Pardalotes and
other species from Tasmania and southern Australia to the north coast
of New South Wales and southern Queensland is only now being
recognised.  We need more banders to track these movements not less
banding.  Remember banders will only ever band a small percentage of
the population of any species but that percentage can provide
essential data that cannot be gathered by observation alone.  It was
banding that proved that the formerly recognised two species of
Silvereye in south-eastern Australia were in fact the one species but
one type was of Tasmanian origin and the other of local origin.  My
banding research on the Eastern Osprey, Black-necked Stork, Beach
Stone-curlew and Australian Pied Oystercatcher and others has provided
essential data required for the management of these threatened
species.  Banding is not the problem it is an important part of the


Dr Greg. P. Clancy
Ecologist and Birding-wildlife Guide
| PO Box 63 Coutts Crossing NSW 2460
| 02 6649 3153  | 0429 601 960

-----Original Message----- From: martin cachard
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2014 4:06 PM
To: Dr Mark Carey ; geoff jones barra images ;

Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature
Reserve take 2

this is a very interesting thread & I've learnt so much already just
from a couple of posts, so thank you so far for these  insights into

one species I believe which could reveal some interesting findings
could be the local breeding canescens race of Black-winged Monarch,  a
species I've been doing much fieldwork on in recent years...
one perplexing question for me is where do they winter when not in
of course some banding would also need to be done in PNG or wherever
else we believe this race may winter...
I truly wonder???

any ideas on doing such a project anyone??

martin cachard,

To: ; 
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:28:39 +1100
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature
Reserve take 2

Hi all,

A good article that explains quite nicely why we should
continue banding and why banding schemes are important!

Cheers, Mark

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:50:22 +1100
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re Banding trip to Buddigower Nature Reserve
take > 2
In response to Harveys reply I need to apologise to Harvey about
leaving > the
nets unattended as he has now said that the nets were not opened
before > they
went off and set up camp and I have already sent a personal email
to > Harvey
on that subject. But if you had read Harvey's Blog here is an
excerpt > from
it;  " When we arrived at Buddigower, Karen and I set to to get a
few > nets
up before dusk, in the same area we had banded those four years >
then went about the business of setting up camp"  This quote is how
I > came
to that conclusion, however it still does not change my point of
view > about
banding birds in a local areas, again I ask for what purpose is it

My personal thoughts are that a bird count done regularly by a
local > bird
club will give you a considerable amount of information without
putting > the
birds thru the trauma of being banded. Last Saturday afternoon I >
observed Sharp-tailed Sandpipers that had recently arrived and were
vigorously feeding after their annual migration to our shores. They
feeding in one of the ponds near the Burrow Pits at the Western >
Plant and as they struggled to raise their legs in the soft mud I >
help but think that if they had large leg flags on their feet and
that > if
birds of prey were around, which is quite common at this site, it
could > be
the difference between life and death for those birds.

Most people now know that the population of waders are dramatically
as many local groups throughout Australian do numerous wader counts
and > that
information is passed on to the appropriate people and/or
So why should we continue to Net, Traumatize and in some cases kill
or > maim
birds, all for so-called research?  I for one think not!

Kindest Regards

Geoff Jones

Barra Imaging

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