Hello Martin,
The different calls were what caught my attention at first, but in those days
we didn't have time for photography, we simply collected them!! Sorry, I hope
i'm still your No 2 hero at least!
Then full marks to Ian Rowley, we began a research programme, colour-banded
birds, climbing to nests, watching - watching and more watching (and collecting
- for stomach samples) to unravel their life history and PROVE they were
different, almost as different to Australian Ravens as a magpie. Sorting
through stomach samples was not my favourite winter time activity!
The Forest Raven was a follow-on. Few people know I actually discovered the New
England form.
It was assisting Ian most of my working life that started my interest in eye
colours - working with choughs, ravens and crows and various cockatoos you had
to be interested. Of course his great passion for fairy-wrens was what
eventually led to my interest in grasswrens , perhaps more than just an
interest. My lectures at O'Reillys Bird Weeks for some years have led to the
current wave of interest, verging on an obsession for some but if that is
everybody's worst fault, what a happy place it would be.
Back onto eye colours there is another good example, funnily enough at the same
changeover point - the Eyrean Barrier - the Pacific Gull, another species
contender. It's a case of "watch this space".
Cheers
Graeme
On 10/05/2018, at 6:53 AM, martin cachard wrote:
> well said Jeff, I couldn't agree with more...
>
> it's been very interesting to just sit back and watch this worthy discussion
> develop!
>
> and 2 very quick questions from me here now for my Number 1 Hero, Mr Graeme
> Chapman:
>
> Graeme, I've always wondered this... when you yourself worked out that we had
> the Little Raven as a good species, as opposed to the thinking at the time
> all those many decades ago, did you study VERY carefully your many images
> taken of the other corvids, as well as those that you proved to be different
> (hence the Little Raven), to help you to reach your conclusion that we had a
> 'new' species of corvid that had been hitherto over looked all those years
> ago?
>
> I reckon your answer would be a resounding YES!!
>
> it's amazing what we can work out when we use careful field observation,
> along with birds' behaviour, structure, iris colour, eggs, and other
> morphology, as well as some good old clear thinking, to reach some good
> scientific conclusions...
>
> and we know that DNA wasn't used back then, don't we Graeme??
>
> cheers,
>
> martin cachard
>
> (a different Martin)
>
>
> trinity beach, cairns, FNQ
>
>
>
> From: Birding-Aus <> on behalf of Jeff
> Davies <>
> Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2018 2:14 PM
> To: 'Martin Cake'; 'Graeme Chapman'
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Scrubwrens
>
> Looking at those blogs Martin,
>
> You are picking out the odd bird on those particular blogs with plain eyes
> when the majority on the same blogs show buff eyes.
> My money is on those odd individuals being subadult or subordinated adult or
> whatever, a bit like what happens with Corvids, start out dark, become
> pale(even blueish) imms, before eventually becoming breeding adult.
> Before you ask, I haven't any research to back this up.
> But if the majority of def adult East coast Scrubwrens are showing buff
> eyes and you have a handful that don't fit, you don't ignore the majority
> view, you look for an explanation as to why the occasional bird doesn't fit.
> That Mornington Peninsula bird in particular looks good for an immature.
>
> Looking at the Spotted types, same deal, go through all the photos you can
> find and then tally up what the majority appearance is for the adults,
> rather than picking out the odd variant.
> And the see if the add variants can be accounted for as imms, non-breeding
> adults or whatever.
>
> It's the appearance of the overwhelming majority of adults that count in
> this comparison.
>
> Cheers Jeff.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
> Martin Cake
> Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2018 12:08 PM
> To: Graeme Chapman <>
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Scrubwrens
>
> G'day Graeme
>
> Yes interesting puzzle isn¹t it.
> I guess we can¹t say whether DNA will have the last word, until it has the
> last word!
>
> As for some images of live White-broweds that don't fit the pattern, here¹s
> a few examples found from a quick search:
>
> A bird with grey-green eyes at Greens Bush, Mornington Peninsula
> https://maltpadaderson.com/2015/01/03/1st-jan-2015-and-a-quiet-start-with-p
> hotography-at-greens-bush/
>
> Some weakly-spotted birds with pale grey-green eyes at Cleland Wildlife
> Park, in the Mt Lofty ranges
> http://tcphotosdotnet.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/cleland-blitz.html
>
> A non-spotted bird with a pale grey eye near Gluepot
> http://www.wilddogphotographics.com/page39/page2/
>
> A male with a grey-green eye near Minghorn Gap NSW
> https://mdahlem.net/birds/17/wbrscrwr.php
>
> A neutral grey eye from Narrabeen NSW
> https://www.birdforum.net/opus/index.php?title=White-browed_Scrubwren&oldid
> =163362
>
>
>
>
>
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