well said Jeff, I couldn't agree with more...
it's been very interesting to just sit back and watch this worthy discussion
develop!
and 2 very quick questions from me here now for my Number 1 Hero, Mr Graeme
Chapman:
Graeme, I've always wondered this... when you yourself worked out that we had
the Little Raven as a good species, as opposed to the thinking at the time all
those many decades ago, did you study VERY carefully your many images taken of
the other corvids, as well as those that you proved to be different (hence the
Little Raven), to help you to reach your conclusion that we had a 'new' species
of corvid that had been hitherto over looked all those years ago?
I reckon your answer would be a resounding YES!!
it's amazing what we can work out when we use careful field observation, along
with birds' behaviour, structure, iris colour, eggs, and other morphology, as
well as some good old clear thinking, to reach some good scientific
conclusions...
and we know that DNA wasn't used back then, don't we Graeme??
cheers,
martin cachard
(a different Martin)
trinity beach, cairns, FNQ
________________________________
From: Birding-Aus <> on behalf of Jeff
Davies <>
Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2018 2:14 PM
To: 'Martin Cake'; 'Graeme Chapman'
Cc:
Subject: Scrubwrens
Looking at those blogs Martin,
You are picking out the odd bird on those particular blogs with plain eyes
when the majority on the same blogs show buff eyes.
My money is on those odd individuals being subadult or subordinated adult or
whatever, a bit like what happens with Corvids, start out dark, become
pale(even blueish) imms, before eventually becoming breeding adult.
Before you ask, I haven't any research to back this up.
But if the majority of def adult East coast Scrubwrens are showing buff
eyes and you have a handful that don't fit, you don't ignore the majority
view, you look for an explanation as to why the occasional bird doesn't fit.
That Mornington Peninsula bird in particular looks good for an immature.
Looking at the Spotted types, same deal, go through all the photos you can
find and then tally up what the majority appearance is for the adults,
rather than picking out the odd variant.
And the see if the add variants can be accounted for as imms, non-breeding
adults or whatever.
It's the appearance of the overwhelming majority of adults that count in
this comparison.
Cheers Jeff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Birding-Aus On Behalf Of
Martin Cake
Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2018 12:08 PM
To: Graeme Chapman <>
Cc:
Subject: Scrubwrens
G'day Graeme
Yes interesting puzzle isn¹t it.
I guess we can¹t say whether DNA will have the last word, until it has the
last word!
As for some images of live White-broweds that don't fit the pattern, here¹s
a few examples found from a quick search:
A bird with grey-green eyes at Greens Bush, Mornington Peninsula
https://maltpadaderson.com/2015/01/03/1st-jan-2015-and-a-quiet-start-with-p
hotography-at-greens-bush/
Some weakly-spotted birds with pale grey-green eyes at Cleland Wildlife
Park, in the Mt Lofty ranges
http://tcphotosdotnet.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/cleland-blitz.html
A non-spotted bird with a pale grey eye near Gluepot
http://www.wilddogphotographics.com/page39/page2/
A male with a grey-green eye near Minghorn Gap NSW
https://mdahlem.net/birds/17/wbrscrwr.php
A neutral grey eye from Narrabeen NSW
https://www.birdforum.net/opus/index.php?title=White-browed_Scrubwren&oldid
=163362
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