I think it's time we all took a deep breath, and stopped the "he said - she
said" arguments that are in same cases edging close to the grey area around
defamation. We are all essentially on the same side here - as people who
like to look at birds in the wild.
We should save our energies for attacking people who prefer to take birds
out of the wild and trade them illegally; or people who want to destroy
habitat for their own financial gain; or people who want to destroy birds
for 'sport.' There is little sense attacking each other over what might or
might not have been implied, or about what some birders might or might not
have done. Please remember PERSPECTIVE - just like the blind men and the
elephant, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant we all
understand the same incident from slightly different views, so we all see
something different ...
The parable of the Bittern:
Three birders are looking at a Yellow Bittern see it fly away to a nearby
golf course. One noticed a photographer getting quite close for a shot
("the photographer scared it away"); the second birder saw a Little
Bittern charge at the Yellow ("The Little Bittern is breeding and chasing
off the Yellow"); a third birder noticed that the Yellow Bittern flushed
whenever the wind gusted from a certain direction ("The Bittern is spooked
by the wind blowing the reeds!"). OK I made up the last one, and this
really isn't a parable, but I think you understand what I mean. We all
interpret what we see to confirm the things we believe, or the stances we
already hold. We all see the same things slightly differently - and we are
all correct (to ourselves), because we've seen it with our OWN eyes!
So please - let's stop attacking each other, and instead focus on the
positives. There is a Yellow Bittern at North Lakes. It may have been there
for a while. It may stay around for a while. Many of us may be lucky enough
to see it. At some stage, someone will dip, but they might get to watch a
pair of Little Bitterns instead (I've seen Yellow, but not Little!) or some
other great birds nearby, like that Dowitcher. There are too many great
bids to see to waste time trying to prove that my perspective is right and
yours is wrong - so let's do some (responsible) birding instead.
Russell Woodford
Birding-Aus List Owner
PS Please don't make me have to ban the term "Yellow Bittern" from
BIrding-Aus!
On 14 July 2014 17:14, cgregory123 . <> wrote:
> The moderators of this site should step in to not only put an end to this
> wearisome thread but also to make this point. On no account will they allow
> a post on this forum that names and shames a member of the public, as has
> been suggested by several people. The simple reason is that member of the
> public, so named, has committed no crime. That member of the public "named
> and shamed" will then have a quite justifiable claim for harassment,
> defamation, libel - you name it - against the poster and maybe the
> moderators themselves, who allowed the post through to a public site. We
> live in a litigious world - tread carefully.
>
> Chris Gregory
>
>
> On 14 July 2014 07:51, Sandra Gallienne <> wrote:
>
> > What makes you people think that you have the right to criticise and
> > falsely
> > accuse me on a public forum? Do I have warts on my nose and a wear a
> > pointy
> > black hat - should I perhaps be burnt at the stake? I'm actually very
> > glad
> > the bird returned to the original site and put on such a good performance
> > for you all and that you were able to obtain lovely photographs of it.
> I'm
> > not against photographers nor am I trying to stir up trouble as some of
> you
> > allege, I take photos too, as I'm sure you can see if any of you read the
> > Recent Lists on the ebird website.
> >
> > I VOLUNTEER hours of my time as a Birdline Moderator to publish your
> > reports
> > as quickly as possible to enable you all to go out and see these
> rarities.
> > Then I have to index all your sightings to the birdata atlas - something
> > which takes me literally hours attempting to locate your obscure sites on
> > Whereis or Google Earth - all so that atlas data can be as accurate as
> > possible, all because you people don't give precise information and take
> > for
> > granted the work that goes on behind the scenes to enhance YOUR enjoyment
> > of
> > birding. I often get requests to help identify photographs of obscure
> > birds
> > which I often have to check out online or in HANZAB, something I
> willingly
> > do, to help newer birders with their passion - ALL AT NO COST TO ANYONE.
> >
> > Now, in answer to some of your accusations, I state the following:
> >
> > I can provide a name of the eyewitness to whom I spoke as well as the
> name
> > of another person who sent an email to me about the trespassing on the
> golf
> > course. Below is the body of that email:
> >
> > "I have just been up to North Lakes to see "the BIRD". ... When I
> arrived I
> > was told that it was now showing over on the lagoon at the golf course
> just
> > across the road. On walking over that way I saw a number of people
> looking
> > at the bittern from within the golf course boundaries. Stupidly, without
> > thinking I joined the group and had a look at it. We were soon approached
> > by
> > the course ranger and asked to leave and not to come on the course
> without
> > getting permission. And rightly so. There were no golfers around when I
> was
> > there and nor did we attempt to walk near the greens etc, but we should
> not
> > have been there. Not only is it a private course but it can be very
> > dangerous as golf balls strikes have been known to kill people.
> >
> > So I am just wondering if you could get a note out to other birders to
> not
> > encroach on the golf course. I don't want other birders (like our little
> > group) giving birders in general a black mark.
> >
> > Sorry about this but I feel compelled to get the message out as soon as
> > possible."
> >
> > However, at this point I don't believe it would make any difference to
> the
> > current hysteria to name them.
> >
> > The eyewitness to whom I spoke said he didn't know the names of the
> > photographers he alleges he saw chase and flush the bird and to involve
> him
> > at this stage would only have another birder maligned. I believe also
> that
> > through the chain of events that occurred before I made my birding-aus
> post
> > which involved phone calls with at least 3 people, that I may have
> > misunderstood the initial part of the chain of events explained to me by
> > this witness that involved the moving on of the bird from the original
> site
> > to the golf course. However, this does not alter the fact that the bird
> > was
> > later flushed from the golf course.
> >
> > I also have some emails from a BQ member calling for calm on this issue
> and
> > confirming my statement that there was an eyewitness who saw what I have
> > claimed. These are below:
> >
> > First email:
> > "Mike has been to North Lakes this morning and the Yellow Bittern has
> > returned to its original location. (he has just phoned in his report)
> There
> > are plenty of birdos there getting wonderful shots without disturbing the
> > bird at all. They all seem to be behaving themselves.
> > The story of some "enthusiastic" birdos flushing the bird several times
> > yesterday have been confirmed, but these birdos were not known to a BQ
> > member that was there yesterday.
> >
> > Lindy West"
> >
> > Second email:
> > Calm down children.
> > The latest in the Yellow Bittern saga is that the bird has been reliable
> > reported as leaving the pond at Wallaroo Circuit WITHOUT harassment by
> > birdos.
> > However there is NO doubt that (unknown) photographers followed it onto
> the
> > golf course and their "pushy" actions there caused it to flush at least
> > twice.
> > The bird has now returned to its home (of possibly two years or more
> > according to local residents).
> >
> > Watch this space.
> >
> > Mike West"
> >
> >
> > There is also a claim being made by two people present at the site, Jim
> > Sneddon & Nicolette Thompson, that the bird was not seen at the Wallaroo
> > Circuit site that morning.
> > However, there have been two lists entered onto ebird by two different
> > observers from Friday morning at two different starting times 0800 and
> > 1000,
> > that both record the Yellow Bittern at the lagoon as well as one at 0810
> > that only recorded the Australian Little Bittern so I don't know at what
> > time the bird left the Lagoon and went to the golf course but it appears
> > from these lists that in fact, it was present at the Lagoon despite their
> > claims to the contrary.
> >
> > It seems that my intended message that the bird had left the site and its
> > whereabouts were unknown was unappreciated by you lot. However, if you'd
> > all attended the site and later found out that the Birdline Moderators
> had
> > known that the bird had left and NOT alerted you to the fact, there would
> > still be sour comments made. It is your good fortune that the bird has
> > returned.
> >
> > I also point out that I am not, have not and will not be asking for
> anyone
> > to be named and shamed and I hope the above information is enough to
> settle
> > the disgruntlement that you people seem to feel entitled to express and
> > share publicly (also known as bullying) with complete disregard to the
> > humiliation and damage you do to other's reputations.
> >
> > In the words of the wise BQ member above - CALM DOWN CHILDREN.
> >
> > Sandra Gallienne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Birding-Aus On Behalf
> > Of
> > Colin R
> > Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2014 6:31 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Yellow Bittern at North Lakes
> >
> > Well said Nicci
> >
> > I wasn't there on Friday but I was on Saturday morning from dawn until
> > 8.30am or thereabouts. I hadn't read Ms Gallienne's 'instruction' at that
> > time, but it was a topic of discussion on site. I later met a birder
> > offsite
> > who had not gone to North Lakes because of her 'directions'!
> >
> > My post of Saturday on Eremaea which described the group of birders on
> site
> > that morning has been removed. I have requested an explanation for that.
> >
> > All in all the birders and photographers who were present on Saturday
> > morning were, as I said in my 'sighting' report "quiet and respectful'
> > and the bird/s completely undisturbed - and, I understand from someone
> who
> > was present on Friday, a similar situation was experienced that morning
> too
> > - as the numerous reports since have also described.
> > I, too, want to know how Ms Gallienne feels she has the authority to
> > instruct birders on their behaviour and, or, whether they should visit a
> > site?
> >
> > The claims of damaged vegetation, disturbed birds and bad behaviour by
> > photographers are causing unnecessary grief and recrimination and
> driving a
> > split in the birding community in SE Qld - even drawing comments from
> > people
> > interstate, for God's sake, who aren't here and don't know the
> individuals
> > concerned!
> >
> > If this is really happening - provide proof. Otherwise stop throwing it
> > around and move on. Life is too short.
> >
> > Colin
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 13, 2014, at 04:23 PM, Nicolette Thompson wrote:
> > > I was one of the birders at North Lakes on Friday. I saw the email
> > > from Sandra Gallienne when I arrived home last night and immediately
> > > let her know that her account of the day was not based on fact. I did
> > > this in the hope that she would retract her statement and thus avoid
> > > the usual acrimonious emails. She has neither done this nor responded
> > > to me.
> > >
> > > On Friday morning the Yellow Bittern was not at the lake where Paul
> > > had seen it. When I and a friend arrived we met two birders who had
> > > been there since early morning and who had not seen the bird. It was
> > > not FLUSHED by birders or photographers. It simply was not there. I
> > > did speak to a few folk who had left the footpaths contrary to Paul's
> > > request. Some moved back immediately and only a couple remained where
> > > they were. There are always a couple of people in any group to whom
> > > any considerations don't apply, aren't there? Anyway they didn't
> > > flush or chase the bird as it wasn't there. The waterfowl were
> > > foraging or loafing in and around the lake and were in no way
> > > perturbed by the dozen or so watchers plus various bikers, walkers and
> > > dog walkers who I guess are regulars in the area.
> > >
> > > Late morning a gentleman came back to the lake to let us know that the
> > > YB was across the road at the Golf Club. There was no great rush
> > > across. As the message spread folk walked across to the pond to watch
> > > or photograph the bird. Eventually officials from the Gold Club came
> > > to talk to us because the pond was in the line of fire from the
> > > golfers and it was a safety issue.
> > >
> > > They were very interested once they knew what we were doing. After a
> > > discussion about safety issues versus our interests they were going to
> > > work on some management strategies for the following day so that both
> > > could be satisfied. We left at midday, so I can't comment on anything
> > > that happened after that .
> > >
> > > Sadly, Sandra's email has caused a lot of angst and unnecessary
> > > back-biting on this forum.
> > >
> > > I would also like to know on what grounds Sandra has given herself the
> > > authority to tell us that 'birders are now asked to refrain from
> > > visiting this site'
> > >
> > > Nicci Thompson
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Birding-Aus mailing list
> > >
> > > To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > Colin Reid
> >
> > So many birds, so little time......
> >
> > --
> > http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different...
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Birding-Aus mailing list
> >
> > To change settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > http://birding-aus.org/mailman/listinfo/birding-aus_birding-aus.org
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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