Hi Guys, well Night Parrots seem to have become very sidelined, they do
exist, I've been lucky enough to see one in the mid 1980s, before I became
a birder.
If any wants to talk about them I'd be happy to oblige.
I think the hijacking issue should be sorted out earlier though as I'm not
really interested in what the Pendants have to say, get over it guys, it
was quite clear what was meant. It's people like you who tend to drive
people away from our pursuit of birds and their conservation, so just think
about that for a moment.
Birding Aus is a great forum so don't let us appear childish. Get over
CAPITALIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a great day and Happy Birding, Happy Snappin' Darren J Callesen
On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 6:57 PM, <>wrote:
> Send birding-aus mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Capitals and common names (Dave Torr)
> 2. Re: S Island NZ in July (Sav Saville)
> 3. Re: Capitals and common names (Falk Wicker)
> 4. Re: Capitals and common names (John Wright)
> 5. Re: Capitals and common names (Sonja Ross)
> 6. Re: Capitals and common names (John Wright)
> 7. Re: Capitals and common names (Robert Inglis)
> 8. Capitals and common names (Andrew Stafford)
> 9. Re: Capitals and common names (Peter Shute)
> 10. Capitals and common names (Robert Inglis)
> 11. Freckled Duck and other goodies in Lockyer Valley (Greg Roberts)
> 12. Is there a need for B-Aus/Pedant? (Laurie Knight)
> 13. Re: Is there a need for B-Aus/Pedant? (Bob Gosford)
> 14. Re: Is there a need for B-Aus/Pedant? (Robert Inglis)
> 15. Re: Capitals and common names (Ross Macfarlane)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 12:25:45 +1000
> From: Dave Torr <>
> To: Robert Inglis <>
> Cc: Birding-Aus <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Capitals and common names
> Message-ID:
> <CAMQyua8p-NYWM2HyNW5nR6UmzdVJ=
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I think most languages have their own names for at least the local birds -
> so English name is perfectly accurate in Aus (and UK, USA etc) whereas the
> common name for House Sparrow in French is "Moineau domestique" (see
> http://ibc.lynxeds.com/species/house-sparrow-passer-domesticus).
> Interesting that the "domestique" (=House) is not capitalised....
>
> On 14 April 2013 11:57, Robert Inglis <> wrote:
>
> > In the name of pedanticism............
> >
> > There must be a better label than ?English names?. Personally, I prefer
> > ?common names?.
> >
> > Or should we only capitalise/capitalize the English versions of bird
> > common names?
> >
> > It would seem that some non-English speaking (as a ?first? language)
> > birdwatchers also capitalise bird common names. For example my copy of
> > ?Robert?s Birds of Southern Africa? lists common names in a number of
> > languages and they all capitalise the names. That is, to maintain the
> > pedantic theme, except for the Zulu names which all start with one, two
> or
> > three lowercase letters immediately followed by what looks like the
> actual
> > name headed by an uppercase letter. I don?t speak or understand ?Zulu? (I
> > barely understand English these days and that is certainly often the case
> > when it is written) so I can?t comment on that form of spelling and
> format.
> > Of course, that version of that field guide was published in 1984, before
> > ?texting? and ?SMS? so it also has punctuation and the text uses complete
> > words.
> >
> > Do, for example, German, Japanese, Spanish (but to name a few)
> > birdwatchers refer to ?English names in their everyday birding
> > conversations?
> >
> > Just to make it clear, I always capitalise (but rarely capitalize) bird
> > Common Names.
> >
> > Bob Inglis
> > Sandstone Point
> > Qld
> > Australia
> > ===============================
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
> > unsubscribe
> > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > to:
> >
> > http://birding-aus.org
> > ===============================
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:54:30 +1200
> From: "Sav Saville" <>
> To: "'John Leonard'" <>
> Cc: 'birding-aus' <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] S Island NZ in July
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi John,
> Very little chance there in winter. They are hard at the best of times
> around Arthur's Pass. There are plenty of other good birds to be had in the
> Christchurch area though.
> Cheers
>
> Sav Saville
> Wrybill Birding Tours,NZ
> "Great Birds, Real Birders"
> www.wrybill-tours.com
>
> +64 27 680 3740
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of John Leonard
> Sent: Saturday, 13 April 2013 4:14 p.m.
> To: Birding-aus
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] S Island NZ in July
>
> I may find myself in Christchurch in July. Is there any point in going to
> Arthur's Pass looking for Rock Wrens, or would they be buried deep beneath
> the snow?
>
> --
> John Leonard
> ===============================
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> send the message:
> unsubscribe
> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> to:
>
> http://birding-aus.org
> ===============================
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:10:17 +1000
> From: Falk Wicker <>
> To: Dave Torr <>
> Cc: Birding-Aus <>, Robert Inglis
> <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Capitals and common names
> Message-ID:
> <
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hi all,
>
> As far as German bird names go - I think all of them are capitalised and
> very often form only one word, e.g. Affenente (literally "Monkey Duck") for
> Freckled Duck. This is the more "classic" approach in German but this has
> changed over time which means that for some species exactly the same rules
> apply for in both English and German. Lesser Yellowlegs (Kleiner
> Gelbschenkel) is a good example.
> I'm definitely all for following the IOC's (capitalising) rules.
>
> Dave and Bob,
> Many if not all German birders I know will use the English bird names when
> travelling overseas or coming across unfamiliar species - for a couple of
> reasons.
> First of all it's much easier to communicate with other foreign birders.
> Also, most of the publishing is done in English, including site and field
> guides. It would be rather useless to study all of the names in German as
> well, unless you have a keen interest (like me).
>
> Interested discussion anyway. Would love to hear what other fellow
> foreigners have to say.
>
> Cheers,
> Falk
> On Apr 14, 2013 12:26 PM, "Dave Torr" <> wrote:
>
> > I think most languages have their own names for at least the local birds
> -
> > so English name is perfectly accurate in Aus (and UK, USA etc) whereas
> the
> > common name for House Sparrow in French is "Moineau domestique" (see
> > http://ibc.lynxeds.com/species/house-sparrow-passer-domesticus).
> > Interesting that the "domestique" (=House) is not capitalised....
> >
> > On 14 April 2013 11:57, Robert Inglis <> wrote:
> >
> > > In the name of pedanticism............
> > >
> > > There must be a better label than ?English names?. Personally, I prefer
> > > ?common names?.
> > >
> > > Or should we only capitalise/capitalize the English versions of bird
> > > common names?
> > >
> > > It would seem that some non-English speaking (as a ?first? language)
> > > birdwatchers also capitalise bird common names. For example my copy of
> > > ?Robert?s Birds of Southern Africa? lists common names in a number of
> > > languages and they all capitalise the names. That is, to maintain the
> > > pedantic theme, except for the Zulu names which all start with one, two
> > or
> > > three lowercase letters immediately followed by what looks like the
> > actual
> > > name headed by an uppercase letter. I don?t speak or understand ?Zulu?
> (I
> > > barely understand English these days and that is certainly often the
> case
> > > when it is written) so I can?t comment on that form of spelling and
> > format.
> > > Of course, that version of that field guide was published in 1984,
> before
> > > ?texting? and ?SMS? so it also has punctuation and the text uses
> complete
> > > words.
> > >
> > > Do, for example, German, Japanese, Spanish (but to name a few)
> > > birdwatchers refer to ?English names in their everyday birding
> > > conversations?
> > >
> > > Just to make it clear, I always capitalise (but rarely capitalize) bird
> > > Common Names.
> > >
> > > Bob Inglis
> > > Sandstone Point
> > > Qld
> > > Australia
> > > ===============================
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > > send the message:
> > > unsubscribe
> > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > > to:
> > >
> > > http://birding-aus.org
> > > ===============================
> > >
> > ===============================
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
> > unsubscribe
> > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > to:
> >
> > http://birding-aus.org
> > ===============================
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:07:02 +0900
> From: John Wright <>
> To: Falk Wicker <>
> Cc: Birding-Aus <>, Robert Inglis
> <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Capitals and common names
> Message-ID:
> <
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hi all:
>
> As for Japanese birders, they normally use the Japanese common names....for
> birds occurring in Japan, these are descriptive names but often are similar
> to English common names when literally translated. For birds not occurring
> in Japan, they usually use as close a literal translation as they can
> convert the English common name (or scientific name) into. As for
> capitalization, as there is no capitalization per se in the Japanese
> language, it is a moot point. But most texts that write the Japanese common
> name in "romaji" (romanized script) have either only the first word in the
> name capitalized or there is no capitalization at all. Additionally, the
> words in the "romanji" names are usually joined by hyphens, so there is no
> second or third word to capitalize...
>
> Interestingly, though, Japanese use a script called "katakana" for writing
> the proper names of animals and plants (many common species also have a
> corresponding Chinese character ("kanji"), though most Japanese don't know
> these and cannot write or read them). So in a sense, this use of katakana
> could be considered to correspond to the use of capitalization in English.
>
> Most Japanese birders have little or no knowledge of English common names,
> nor do they have much knowledge of the scientific names. This makes taking
> a checklist that contains translations of the English common name into the
> Japanese common name (and vice-versa!) on any Japanese birding trip a good
> idea if you want to get local knowledge on what has been seen where!
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Falk Wicker <
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As far as German bird names go - I think all of them are capitalised and
> > very often form only one word, e.g. Affenente (literally "Monkey Duck")
> for
> > Freckled Duck. This is the more "classic" approach in German but this has
> > changed over time which means that for some species exactly the same
> rules
> > apply for in both English and German. Lesser Yellowlegs (Kleiner
> > Gelbschenkel) is a good example.
> > I'm definitely all for following the IOC's (capitalising) rules.
> >
> > Dave and Bob,
> > Many if not all German birders I know will use the English bird names
> when
> > travelling overseas or coming across unfamiliar species - for a couple of
> > reasons.
> > First of all it's much easier to communicate with other foreign birders.
> > Also, most of the publishing is done in English, including site and field
> > guides. It would be rather useless to study all of the names in German as
> > well, unless you have a keen interest (like me).
> >
> > Interested discussion anyway. Would love to hear what other fellow
> > foreigners have to say.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Falk
> > On Apr 14, 2013 12:26 PM, "Dave Torr" <> wrote:
> >
> > > I think most languages have their own names for at least the local
> birds
> > -
> > > so English name is perfectly accurate in Aus (and UK, USA etc) whereas
> > the
> > > common name for House Sparrow in French is "Moineau domestique" (see
> > > http://ibc.lynxeds.com/species/house-sparrow-passer-domesticus).
> > > Interesting that the "domestique" (=House) is not capitalised....
> > >
> > > On 14 April 2013 11:57, Robert Inglis <> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In the name of pedanticism............
> > > >
> > > > There must be a better label than ?English names?. Personally, I
> prefer
> > > > ?common names?.
> > > >
> > > > Or should we only capitalise/capitalize the English versions of bird
> > > > common names?
> > > >
> > > > It would seem that some non-English speaking (as a ?first? language)
> > > > birdwatchers also capitalise bird common names. For example my copy
> of
> > > > ?Robert?s Birds of Southern Africa? lists common names in a number of
> > > > languages and they all capitalise the names. That is, to maintain the
> > > > pedantic theme, except for the Zulu names which all start with one,
> two
> > > or
> > > > three lowercase letters immediately followed by what looks like the
> > > actual
> > > > name headed by an uppercase letter. I don?t speak or understand
> ?Zulu?
> > (I
> > > > barely understand English these days and that is certainly often the
> > case
> > > > when it is written) so I can?t comment on that form of spelling and
> > > format.
> > > > Of course, that version of that field guide was published in 1984,
> > before
> > > > ?texting? and ?SMS? so it also has punctuation and the text uses
> > complete
> > > > words.
> > > >
> > > > Do, for example, German, Japanese, Spanish (but to name a few)
> > > > birdwatchers refer to ?English names in their everyday birding
> > > > conversations?
> > > >
> > > > Just to make it clear, I always capitalise (but rarely capitalize)
> bird
> > > > Common Names.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Inglis
> > > > Sandstone Point
> > > > Qld
> > > > Australia
> > > > ===============================
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > > > send the message:
> > > > unsubscribe
> > > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > > > to:
> > > >
> > > > http://birding-aus.org
> > > > ===============================
> > > >
> > > ===============================
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > > send the message:
> > > unsubscribe
> > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > > to:
> > >
> > > http://birding-aus.org
> > > ===============================
> > >
> > ===============================
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
> > unsubscribe
> > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > to:
> >
> > http://birding-aus.org
> > ===============================
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> www.johnandrewwright.com
> www.flickr.com/photos/johnandrewwright
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:35:49 +1000
> From: Sonja Ross <>
> To: John Wright <>,
>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Capitals and common names
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hi John,
>
> I did find in two large parks in Tokyo though that some Japanese birders
> knew Mandarin Duck, and Baikal Teal in English and tried to help us find
> them through signs and escorting us or pointing on a map. Pictures or a
> photo in camera even were a big help!
>
> Sonja
>
> On 14/04/2013, at 2:07 PM, John Wright wrote:
>
> > Hi all:
> >
> > As for Japanese birders, they normally use the Japanese common
> names....for
> > birds occurring in Japan, these are descriptive names but often are
> similar
> > to English common names when literally translated. For birds not
> occurring
> > in Japan, they usually use as close a literal translation as they can
> > convert the English common name (or scientific name) into. As for
> > capitalization, as there is no capitalization per se in the Japanese
> > language, it is a moot point. But most texts that write the Japanese
> common
> > name in "romaji" (romanized script) have either only the first word in
> the
> > name capitalized or there is no capitalization at all. Additionally, the
> > words in the "romanji" names are usually joined by hyphens, so there is
> no
> > second or third word to capitalize...
> >
> > Interestingly, though, Japanese use a script called "katakana" for
> writing
> > the proper names of animals and plants (many common species also have a
> > corresponding Chinese character ("kanji"), though most Japanese don't
> know
> > these and cannot write or read them). So in a sense, this use of katakana
> > could be considered to correspond to the use of capitalization in
> English.
> >
> > Most Japanese birders have little or no knowledge of English common
> names,
> > nor do they have much knowledge of the scientific names. This makes
> taking
> > a checklist that contains translations of the English common name into
> the
> > Japanese common name (and vice-versa!) on any Japanese birding trip a
> good
> > idea if you want to get local knowledge on what has been seen where!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Falk Wicker <
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> As far as German bird names go - I think all of them are capitalised and
> >> very often form only one word, e.g. Affenente (literally "Monkey Duck")
> for
> >> Freckled Duck. This is the more "classic" approach in German but this
> has
> >> changed over time which means that for some species exactly the same
> rules
> >> apply for in both English and German. Lesser Yellowlegs (Kleiner
> >> Gelbschenkel) is a good example.
> >> I'm definitely all for following the IOC's (capitalising) rules.
> >>
> >> Dave and Bob,
> >> Many if not all German birders I know will use the English bird names
> when
> >> travelling overseas or coming across unfamiliar species - for a couple
> of
> >> reasons.
> >> First of all it's much easier to communicate with other foreign birders.
> >> Also, most of the publishing is done in English, including site and
> field
> >> guides. It would be rather useless to study all of the names in German
> as
> >> well, unless you have a keen interest (like me).
> >>
> >> Interested discussion anyway. Would love to hear what other fellow
> >> foreigners have to say.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Falk
> >> On Apr 14, 2013 12:26 PM, "Dave Torr" <> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think most languages have their own names for at least the local
> birds
> >> -
> >>> so English name is perfectly accurate in Aus (and UK, USA etc) whereas
> >> the
> >>> common name for House Sparrow in French is "Moineau domestique" (see
> >>> http://ibc.lynxeds.com/species/house-sparrow-passer-domesticus).
> >>> Interesting that the "domestique" (=House) is not capitalised....
> >>>
> >>> On 14 April 2013 11:57, Robert Inglis <> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In the name of pedanticism............
> >>>>
> >>>> There must be a better label than ?English names?. Personally, I
> prefer
> >>>> ?common names?.
> >>>>
> >>>> Or should we only capitalise/capitalize the English versions of bird
> >>>> common names?
> >>>>
> >>>> It would seem that some non-English speaking (as a ?first? language)
> >>>> birdwatchers also capitalise bird common names. For example my copy of
> >>>> ?Robert?s Birds of Southern Africa? lists common names in a number of
> >>>> languages and they all capitalise the names. That is, to maintain the
> >>>> pedantic theme, except for the Zulu names which all start with one,
> two
> >>> or
> >>>> three lowercase letters immediately followed by what looks like the
> >>> actual
> >>>> name headed by an uppercase letter. I don?t speak or understand ?Zulu?
> >> (I
> >>>> barely understand English these days and that is certainly often the
> >> case
> >>>> when it is written) so I can?t comment on that form of spelling and
> >>> format.
> >>>> Of course, that version of that field guide was published in 1984,
> >> before
> >>>> ?texting? and ?SMS? so it also has punctuation and the text uses
> >> complete
> >>>> words.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do, for example, German, Japanese, Spanish (but to name a few)
> >>>> birdwatchers refer to ?English names in their everyday birding
> >>>> conversations?
> >>>>
> >>>> Just to make it clear, I always capitalise (but rarely capitalize)
> bird
> >>>> Common Names.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob Inglis
> >>>> Sandstone Point
> >>>> Qld
> >>>> Australia
> >>>> ===============================
> >>>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> >>>> send the message:
> >>>> unsubscribe
> >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> >>>> to:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://birding-aus.org
> >>>> ===============================
> >>>>
> >>> ===============================
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> >>> send the message:
> >>> unsubscribe
> >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> >>> to:
> >>>
> >>> http://birding-aus.org
> >>> ===============================
> >>>
> >> ===============================
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> >> send the message:
> >> unsubscribe
> >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> >> to:
> >>
> >> http://birding-aus.org
> >> ===============================
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > www.johnandrewwright.com
> > www.flickr.com/photos/johnandrewwright
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ===============================
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > send the message:
> > unsubscribe
> > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > to:
> >
> > http://birding-aus.org
> > ===============================
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:52:04 +0900
> From: John Wright <>
> To: Sonja Ross <>
> Cc: Birding-aus <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Capitals and common names
> Message-ID:
> <
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hi Sonja:
>
> Yes, in larger cities like Tokyo and Osaka you will find a few birders who
> know English common names, particularly sort-after species or common
> species, or at least that will know the names of types of birds in English
> such as spoonbill, plover, merganser, falcon, bunting, etc., from which you
> can work out what species they are talking about. The good thing about
> being in a popular birding location is that there should be at least one
> person that either has some knowledge of English names or has a field guide
> with both Japanese and English common names. However on most of my trips to
> less visited locations, I have only rarely encountered someone familiar
> with English names. In every case, though, Japanese birders have gone out
> of their way to help even if language was a barrier! They are very
> accommodating to visiting birders.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Sonja Ross <> wrote:
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > I did find in two large parks in Tokyo though that some Japanese birders
> > knew Mandarin Duck, and Baikal Teal in English and tried to help us find
> > them through signs and escorting us or pointing on a map. Pictures or a
> > photo in camera even were a big help!
> >
> > Sonja
> >
> > On 14/04/2013, at 2:07 PM, John Wright wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all:
> > >
> > > As for Japanese birders, they normally use the Japanese common
> > names....for
> > > birds occurring in Japan, these are descriptive names but often are
> > similar
> > > to English common names when literally translated. For birds not
> > occurring
> > > in Japan, they usually use as close a literal translation as they can
> > > convert the English common name (or scientific name) into. As for
> > > capitalization, as there is no capitalization per se in the Japanese
> > > language, it is a moot point. But most texts that write the Japanese
> > common
> > > name in "romaji" (romanized script) have either only the first word in
> > the
> > > name capitalized or there is no capitalization at all. Additionally,
> the
> > > words in the "romanji" names are usually joined by hyphens, so there is
> > no
> > > second or third word to capitalize...
> > >
> > > Interestingly, though, Japanese use a script called "katakana" for
> > writing
> > > the proper names of animals and plants (many common species also have a
> > > corresponding Chinese character ("kanji"), though most Japanese don't
> > know
> > > these and cannot write or read them). So in a sense, this use of
> katakana
> > > could be considered to correspond to the use of capitalization in
> > English.
> > >
> > > Most Japanese birders have little or no knowledge of English common
> > names,
> > > nor do they have much knowledge of the scientific names. This makes
> > taking
> > > a checklist that contains translations of the English common name into
> > the
> > > Japanese common name (and vice-versa!) on any Japanese birding trip a
> > good
> > > idea if you want to get local knowledge on what has been seen where!
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Falk Wicker <
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> As far as German bird names go - I think all of them are capitalised
> and
> > >> very often form only one word, e.g. Affenente (literally "Monkey
> Duck")
> > for
> > >> Freckled Duck. This is the more "classic" approach in German but this
> > has
> > >> changed over time which means that for some species exactly the same
> > rules
> > >> apply for in both English and German. Lesser Yellowlegs (Kleiner
> > >> Gelbschenkel) is a good example.
> > >> I'm definitely all for following the IOC's (capitalising) rules.
> > >>
> > >> Dave and Bob,
> > >> Many if not all German birders I know will use the English bird names
> > when
> > >> travelling overseas or coming across unfamiliar species - for a couple
> > of
> > >> reasons.
> > >> First of all it's much easier to communicate with other foreign
> birders.
> > >> Also, most of the publishing is done in English, including site and
> > field
> > >> guides. It would be rather useless to study all of the names in German
> > as
> > >> well, unless you have a keen interest (like me).
> > >>
> > >> Interested discussion anyway. Would love to hear what other fellow
> > >> foreigners have to say.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Falk
> > >> On Apr 14, 2013 12:26 PM, "Dave Torr" <> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I think most languages have their own names for at least the local
> > birds
> > >> -
> > >>> so English name is perfectly accurate in Aus (and UK, USA etc)
> whereas
> > >> the
> > >>> common name for House Sparrow in French is "Moineau domestique" (see
> > >>> http://ibc.lynxeds.com/species/house-sparrow-passer-domesticus).
> > >>> Interesting that the "domestique" (=House) is not capitalised....
> > >>>
> > >>> On 14 April 2013 11:57, Robert Inglis <> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> In the name of pedanticism............
> > >>>>
> > >>>> There must be a better label than ?English names?. Personally, I
> > prefer
> > >>>> ?common names?.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Or should we only capitalise/capitalize the English versions of bird
> > >>>> common names?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> It would seem that some non-English speaking (as a ?first? language)
> > >>>> birdwatchers also capitalise bird common names. For example my copy
> of
> > >>>> ?Robert?s Birds of Southern Africa? lists common names in a number
> of
> > >>>> languages and they all capitalise the names. That is, to maintain
> the
> > >>>> pedantic theme, except for the Zulu names which all start with one,
> > two
> > >>> or
> > >>>> three lowercase letters immediately followed by what looks like the
> > >>> actual
> > >>>> name headed by an uppercase letter. I don?t speak or understand
> ?Zulu?
> > >> (I
> > >>>> barely understand English these days and that is certainly often the
> > >> case
> > >>>> when it is written) so I can?t comment on that form of spelling and
> > >>> format.
> > >>>> Of course, that version of that field guide was published in 1984,
> > >> before
> > >>>> ?texting? and ?SMS? so it also has punctuation and the text uses
> > >> complete
> > >>>> words.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Do, for example, German, Japanese, Spanish (but to name a few)
> > >>>> birdwatchers refer to ?English names in their everyday birding
> > >>>> conversations?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Just to make it clear, I always capitalise (but rarely capitalize)
> > bird
> > >>>> Common Names.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Bob Inglis
> > >>>> Sandstone Point
> > >>>> Qld
> > >>>> Australia
> > >>>> ===============================
> > >>>>
> > >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > >>>> send the message:
> > >>>> unsubscribe
> > >>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > >>>> to:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> http://birding-aus.org
> > >>>> ===============================
> > >>>>
> > >>> ===============================
> > >>>
> > >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > >>> send the message:
> > >>> unsubscribe
> > >>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > >>> to:
> > >>>
> > >>> http://birding-aus.org
> > >>> ===============================
> > >>>
> > >> ===============================
> > >>
> > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > >> send the message:
> > >> unsubscribe
> > >> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > >> to:
> > >>
> > >> http://birding-aus.org
> > >> ===============================
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > www.johnandrewwright.com
> > > www.flickr.com/photos/johnandrewwright
> > >
> > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ===============================
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> > > send the message:
> > > unsubscribe
> > > (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> > > to:
> > >
> > > http://birding-aus.org
> > > ===============================
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> www.johnandrewwright.com
> www.flickr.com/photos/johnandrewwright
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 15:20:49 +1000
> From: "Robert Inglis" <>
> To: "Dave Torr" <>
> Cc: Birding-Aus <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Capitals and common names
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> Thanks for your response Dave but I think you may have missed my point.
>
> The subject title of the discussion originally was ?Capitalisation of bird
> common names? as created by Steve (insert family name here) and then became
> ?Capitals and common names? as per Graeme Chapman. Thus the discussion is
> about capitalisation of ?common names? and the very good reasons for doing
> that but the discussion is not about the choice of the name itself. As
> often happens in this oft resurrected discussion, the term ?English names?
> came into the conversation as a replacement for ?common names?.
> Thus my point was to question the correctness of referring, in this
> context, to common names as ?English names? even by members of a
> society/country which has English as its first or national language.
> I was asking for a better or more appropriate label than ?English name?
> (which I happen to think is totally inappropriate as it appears to have
> somewhat racial overtones). I am quite happy to use ?common names? as that
> may be appropriate, even if sounding a little demeaning, but I wonder if
> there may be a better term. Since writing my original comment I have been
> prompted to consider ?vernacular names? as a possible better choice.
>
> A discussion on the correctness or otherwise of capitalisation of the
> ?common names? used by birdwatchers should, in my mind at least, be an
> international one and therefore it is inappropriate to refer to ?English
> names? or, indeed German, French, Swahili or any other national language
> names.
> Naturally, bird common names in different languages use different words
> and may have different meanings. What those words should be is not part of
> the discussion; it is whether those words which should or should not be
> capitalised that is the discussion.
>
> Bob Inglis
>
>
>
> From: Dave Torr
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:25 PM
> To: Robert Inglis
> Cc: Birding-Aus
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Capitals and common names
>
> I think most languages have their own names for at least the local birds -
> so English name is perfectly accurate in Aus (and UK, USA etc) whereas the
> common name for House Sparrow in French is "Moineau domestique" (see
> http://ibc.lynxeds.com/species/house-sparrow-passer-domesticus).
> Interesting that the "domestique" (=House) is not capitalised....
>
>
> On 14 April 2013 11:57, Robert Inglis <> wrote:
>
> In the name of pedanticism............
>
> There must be a better label than ?English names?. Personally, I prefer
> ?common names?.
>
> Or should we only capitalise/capitalize the English versions of bird
> common names?
> (edited)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:51:42 +1000
> From: Andrew Stafford <>
> To: " net. au" <>
> Subject: [Birding-Aus] Capitals and common names
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all,
>
> I believe the original point of discussion, before this thread was
> thoroughly hijacked by the resident pedants of birding-aus, was Night
> Parrots. I find it interesting to say the least that the issue of
> capitalisation is apparently of so much more interest than Australia's most
> enigmatic species...
>
> Cheers, Andrew
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 15:40:51 +1000
> From: Peter Shute <>
> To: "" <>,
> "" <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Capitals and common names
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Well, I haven't got much to say about Night Parrots other than I hope the
> plan works, because I, like just about everyone else, know nothing about
> them.
>
> As for the hijacking, I'd say the perpetrators have done an unusually good
> job of changing the subject line.
>
> I had considered pointing out that no one had said anything about the idea
> that of Night Parrot habitat being bulldozed, but decided it was probably
> silly to worry about what was probably just a few road verges in a sea of
> spinifex. There, now I've hijacked the capitalisation thread.
>
> Peter Shute
>
>
> --------------------------
> Sent using BlackBerry
>
|
