Dave,
They burn excellently. All that blubber. But, they are not a sustainable
resource, whereas humans...
BTW, anyone have a recipe for Soylent Green?
Cheers,
Carl Clifford
On 23/08/2012, at 1:03 PM, Dave Torr <> wrote:
> Do they burn well?????
>
> On 23 August 2012 12:21, Andrew Hobbs <> wrote:
>
>> Two points.
>>
>> First. Bill, you might recognise that the economy might not depend upon
>> growth but just about every economist, pseudo economist, politition,
>> business person and commentator I hear in public media seems to think
>> otherwise. I just wish that if economists really believed otherwise they at
>> least would start to come out of the woodwork and say that growth is not
>> necessary and will kill us in the long run.
>>
>> Second. I once read a small piece that epitomized the whole attitude of
>> most people to the environment. It said something like 'most people may
>> profess to be conservationists, green etc. but when it comes to the crunch
>> most would quite happily shovel baby fur seals into the furnace if it meant
>> being able to retain their current lifestyle a little longer.'
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> On 23/08/2012 9:58 AM, Bill Stent wrote:
>>
>>> I (speaking as an economist) think that the assumption that the
>>> economy depends on growth is fallacious. It's hard not to sound like a
>>> Marxian in such discussions, but the distribution of resources can be
>>> more important than the total amount of resources available. In fact,
>>> the argument that growth is important can be (and often has been) used
>>> as a way of focusing the debate away from the distributional
>>> arguments.
>>>
>>> Actually, I think the appropriate response is that if it is true that
>>> the economy depends on growth, then too bad for the economy.
>>>
>>> A wise economist once said that the only thing that grows without
>>> pause is cancer.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Peter Shute <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How can you change anything when the economy depends on growth?
>>>>
>>>> Peter Shute
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:
>>>>> <>[mailto:
>>>>> birding-aus-
>>>>> On Behalf Of Richard King
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2012 11:15 AM
>>>>> To:
>>>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] future prospects for the environment
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I know I'm probably opening a huge can of worms and may get my arse
>>>>> kicked,
>>>>> but here we go.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We often seem to get upset with governments (or other groups) who don't
>>>>> protect the environment and rightly so, and I do agree that most of the
>>>>> time
>>>>> much, much more can be done! I also see that all governments in
>>>>> Australia
>>>>> and worldwide are under huge pressures from citizens and other countries
>>>>> to
>>>>> provide resources and facilities (I in no way support hunting in parks
>>>>> or
>>>>> other areas). The real issue, especially now, is our ever increasing
>>>>> human
>>>>> population in Australia and again worldwide. A recent article I read,
>>>>> said
>>>>> that now the world population is increasing by about 200 new humans born
>>>>> each second (that's after human deaths per second are taken into
>>>>> account).
>>>>> We have already passed needing 1.6 planets to survive, totally
>>>>> unsustainable!
>>>>>
>>>>> Resources (mineral, water, food) are dwindling and any areas, including
>>>>> national parks, will have to be destroyed if it is necessary to get
>>>>> them.
>>>>> Every one of those new 6000+ humans (by the time you read this email)
>>>>> will
>>>>> need more new resources and facilities. Perth, I've heard last week is
>>>>> going
>>>>> to increase by at least 500 000 in the next ten years, a city that is
>>>>> already severely short of water, bad transport and the list goes on. We
>>>>> live
>>>>> in a desert continent, so for us in Australia, water, food and
>>>>> resources,
>>>>> not to mention providing all the facilities people want, is going to be
>>>>> a
>>>>> nightmarish problem!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry to sound so dark, but there does not seem to be any quick solution
>>>>> to
>>>>> these problems, the wonderful natural areas we love will have to be
>>>>> destroyed or at least modified and degraded. Our protected and loved
>>>>> natural
>>>>> areas can only exist if we have a 'comfortable' modern life, think of
>>>>> it, if
>>>>> Coles or Woolworths ran out of food, wouldn't you go hunt as much native
>>>>> wildlife as you can find, even in national parks, to provide food for
>>>>> yourself and family? I believe this is already happening on a subtle
>>>>> worldwide scale, resources are running out and the world is hungry, time
>>>>> to
>>>>> plunder what's left, unfortunately it's often in our 'protected' areas.
>>>>> It
>>>>> will only get worse and faster.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally most people only care about the environment (if at all), when
>>>>> there bellies are full and other needs met. We are only able to spend
>>>>> time
>>>>> birding and enjoying the natural environment, because we don't have to
>>>>> spend
>>>>> all our time growing food and trying just to use the environment (eg.
>>>>> hunting birds) to survive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Over population is the real problem (look at the extinct civilization of
>>>>> Easter Island) for many of our environmental and other problems, but I'm
>>>>> not
>>>>> sure if we will deal with it or are even able to. How do you tell
>>>>> members of
>>>>> your own family to stop having more than 2 kids, or other families
>>>>> wanting
>>>>> to? How do you stop immigration or genuine refugees? The answer is you
>>>>> really can't (for moral, freedom of choice or other reasons), so the
>>>>> environment and our lifestyles will have to change and probably degrade.
>>>>> Sadly, I think the 'big crunch' for humanity will come (fairly soon and
>>>>> very
>>>>> rapidly) and the last remaining natural environments will be the first
>>>>> to
>>>>> go.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards (I won't say cheers),
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard King
>>>>>
>>>>> ==============================**=
>>>>>
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>>>>> send the message:
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>>>>>
>>>>> http://birding-aus.org
>>>>> ==============================**=
>>>>>
>>>> ==============================**=
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> *************************************************************
>> Andrew Hobbs
>>
>>
>> *************************************************************
>>
>>
>> ==============================**=
>>
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