Do they burn well?????
On 23 August 2012 12:21, Andrew Hobbs <> wrote:
> Two points.
>
> First. Bill, you might recognise that the economy might not depend upon
> growth but just about every economist, pseudo economist, politition,
> business person and commentator I hear in public media seems to think
> otherwise. I just wish that if economists really believed otherwise they at
> least would start to come out of the woodwork and say that growth is not
> necessary and will kill us in the long run.
>
> Second. I once read a small piece that epitomized the whole attitude of
> most people to the environment. It said something like 'most people may
> profess to be conservationists, green etc. but when it comes to the crunch
> most would quite happily shovel baby fur seals into the furnace if it meant
> being able to retain their current lifestyle a little longer.'
>
> Cheers
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On 23/08/2012 9:58 AM, Bill Stent wrote:
>
>> I (speaking as an economist) think that the assumption that the
>> economy depends on growth is fallacious. It's hard not to sound like a
>> Marxian in such discussions, but the distribution of resources can be
>> more important than the total amount of resources available. In fact,
>> the argument that growth is important can be (and often has been) used
>> as a way of focusing the debate away from the distributional
>> arguments.
>>
>> Actually, I think the appropriate response is that if it is true that
>> the economy depends on growth, then too bad for the economy.
>>
>> A wise economist once said that the only thing that grows without
>> pause is cancer.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Peter Shute <> wrote:
>>
>>> How can you change anything when the economy depends on growth?
>>>
>>> Peter Shute
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:
>>>> <>[mailto:
>>>> birding-aus-
>>>> On Behalf Of Richard King
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2012 11:15 AM
>>>> To:
>>>> Subject: [Birding-Aus] future prospects for the environment
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know I'm probably opening a huge can of worms and may get my arse
>>>> kicked,
>>>> but here we go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We often seem to get upset with governments (or other groups) who don't
>>>> protect the environment and rightly so, and I do agree that most of the
>>>> time
>>>> much, much more can be done! I also see that all governments in
>>>> Australia
>>>> and worldwide are under huge pressures from citizens and other countries
>>>> to
>>>> provide resources and facilities (I in no way support hunting in parks
>>>> or
>>>> other areas). The real issue, especially now, is our ever increasing
>>>> human
>>>> population in Australia and again worldwide. A recent article I read,
>>>> said
>>>> that now the world population is increasing by about 200 new humans born
>>>> each second (that's after human deaths per second are taken into
>>>> account).
>>>> We have already passed needing 1.6 planets to survive, totally
>>>> unsustainable!
>>>>
>>>> Resources (mineral, water, food) are dwindling and any areas, including
>>>> national parks, will have to be destroyed if it is necessary to get
>>>> them.
>>>> Every one of those new 6000+ humans (by the time you read this email)
>>>> will
>>>> need more new resources and facilities. Perth, I've heard last week is
>>>> going
>>>> to increase by at least 500 000 in the next ten years, a city that is
>>>> already severely short of water, bad transport and the list goes on. We
>>>> live
>>>> in a desert continent, so for us in Australia, water, food and
>>>> resources,
>>>> not to mention providing all the facilities people want, is going to be
>>>> a
>>>> nightmarish problem!
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to sound so dark, but there does not seem to be any quick solution
>>>> to
>>>> these problems, the wonderful natural areas we love will have to be
>>>> destroyed or at least modified and degraded. Our protected and loved
>>>> natural
>>>> areas can only exist if we have a 'comfortable' modern life, think of
>>>> it, if
>>>> Coles or Woolworths ran out of food, wouldn't you go hunt as much native
>>>> wildlife as you can find, even in national parks, to provide food for
>>>> yourself and family? I believe this is already happening on a subtle
>>>> worldwide scale, resources are running out and the world is hungry, time
>>>> to
>>>> plunder what's left, unfortunately it's often in our 'protected' areas.
>>>> It
>>>> will only get worse and faster.
>>>>
>>>> Generally most people only care about the environment (if at all), when
>>>> there bellies are full and other needs met. We are only able to spend
>>>> time
>>>> birding and enjoying the natural environment, because we don't have to
>>>> spend
>>>> all our time growing food and trying just to use the environment (eg.
>>>> hunting birds) to survive.
>>>>
>>>> Over population is the real problem (look at the extinct civilization of
>>>> Easter Island) for many of our environmental and other problems, but I'm
>>>> not
>>>> sure if we will deal with it or are even able to. How do you tell
>>>> members of
>>>> your own family to stop having more than 2 kids, or other families
>>>> wanting
>>>> to? How do you stop immigration or genuine refugees? The answer is you
>>>> really can't (for moral, freedom of choice or other reasons), so the
>>>> environment and our lifestyles will have to change and probably degrade.
>>>> Sadly, I think the 'big crunch' for humanity will come (fairly soon and
>>>> very
>>>> rapidly) and the last remaining natural environments will be the first
>>>> to
>>>> go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards (I won't say cheers),
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard King
>>>>
>>>> ==============================**=
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
>>>> send the message:
>>>> unsubscribe
>>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
>>>> to: <>
>>>>
>>>> http://birding-aus.org
>>>> ==============================**=
>>>>
>>> ==============================**=
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
>>> send the message:
>>> unsubscribe
>>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
>>> to: <>
>>>
>>> http://birding-aus.org
>>> ==============================**=
>>>
>> ==============================**=
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
>> send the message:
>> unsubscribe
>> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
>> to: <>
>>
>> http://birding-aus.org
>> ==============================**=
>>
>>
>
> --
> *************************************************************
> Andrew Hobbs
>
>
> *************************************************************
>
>
> ==============================**=
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
> send the message:
> unsubscribe
> (in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
> to: <>
>
> http://birding-aus.org
> ==============================**=
>
===============================
To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
send the message:
unsubscribe
(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to:
http://birding-aus.org
===============================
|
