Thank you for that Nikolas. That is very helpful. I appreciate and value your
input.
Bob Inglis
Sandstone Point
Qld
From: Nikolas Haass
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 8:18 PM
To: Robert Inglis ; Birding-Aus
Subject: Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?
Hi Bob,
Actually, Michael, Richard and Kevin (the three authors of The Shorebird Guide)
used to be my "neighbours". I used to live in Philadelphia and my "local patch"
used to be Cape May, where Michael, Richard and Kevin live. Yes, they use "wing
point", which is interchangeable with "wing projection". I personally like the
latter better (I also don't say "tail point" ;-)
The term "primary projection" refers to an actual measurement or ratio (i.e. %
of tertial length) and number of visible primary tips beyond the longest
tertial tip is an additional field mark.
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Sydney, NSW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Inglis <>
To: Nikolas Haass <>; Birding-Aus <>
Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 7:29 PM
Subject: Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?
Thank you for that Nikolas.
If I may........
I would like a slight clarification.......
Could “primary projection” be expressed as “the number of primary tips
extending beyond the longest tertial tip”? Or does it only refer to an actual
measurement.
Please excuse me for being pedantic but I am like that.
I’m happy with the definition of “wing projection” but did you ever hear the
term “wing point'” during your time in the USA?
Bob Inglis
Sandstone Point
Qld
From: Nikolas Haass
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 6:22 PM
To: Robert Inglis ; Birding-Aus
Subject: Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?
Collins Bird Guide (Mullarney/Svensson et al.):
Primary projection: the part of the primaries which on the folded wing extends
beyond the tip of the tertials
Wing projection: the part of the wings which extends beyond the tail tip when
the bird is perched
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Sydney, NSW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Inglis <>
To: Birding-Aus <>
Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:35 AM
Subject: Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?
I am looking for a term to use to refer to the extension of primary tips past
the tip of the tail.
Preferably the term should not cause any confusion with the extension of
primary tips past the tertials.
I am aware that “primary projection” is commonly used by many birders to
describe both extension of the primary tips past the tertials and extension of
the primary tips past the tip of the tail but this has been discussed on
BirdingAus in the past and has been considered by some learned birders to be
wrong.
That is, wrong when used to describe the extension of the primary tips past the
tip of the tail.
One term for the extension of the primary tips past the tip of the tail
suggested in that discussion was “wing projection”.
I have since discovered the term “wing point” to describe this condition in
“The Shorebird Guide”, O’brien, Crossley and Karlson, 2006.
In the Glossary of that publication “Wing Point” is described as “The degree to
which primaries project beyond the tail”.
This looks like what I want but I have been unable to find this term being used
in any other of my bird books.
Searching on Google only brings up subjects on real estate in the USA and
political discussions.
I ask members of the list to please share with me their ideas on which term is
best used to describe the extension of the primary tips past the tip of the
tail.
Personally I don’t favour “primary projection” but would be happy to use
whichever of the terms “wing projection” or “wing point” is favoured by a
majority.
My aim is to use a term which at least most birders can understand and accept.
I would, of course, be interested to see if there is another term which is
commonly used and accepted....and is correct.
Bob Inglis
Sandstone Point
Qld
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