Hi Bob,
Actually, Michael, Richard and Kevin (the three authors of The Shorebird Guide)
used to be my "neighbours". I used to live in Philadelphia and my "local patch"
used to be Cape May, where Michael, Richard and Kevin live. Yes, they use "wing
point", which is interchangeable with "wing projection". I personally like the
latter better (I also don't say "tail point" ;-)
The term "primary projection" refers to an actual measurement or ratio (i.e. %
of tertial length) and number of visible primary tips beyond the longest
tertial tip is an additional field mark.
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Sydney, NSW
________________________________
From: Robert Inglis <>
To: Nikolas Haass <>; Birding-Aus <>
Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?
Thank you for that Nikolas.
If I may........
I would like a slight clarification.......
Could “primary projection” be expressed as “the number of primary tips
extending beyond the longest tertial tip”? Or does it only refer to an actual
measurement.
Please excuse me for being pedantic but I am like that.
I’m happy with the definition of “wing projection” but did you ever hear
the term “wing point'” during your time in the USA?
Bob Inglis
Sandstone Point
Qld
From: Nikolas Haass
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 6:22 PM
To: Robert Inglis ; Birding-Aus
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing
Point'?
Collins Bird Guide (Mullarney/Svensson et al.):
Primary projection: the part of the primaries which on the folded
wing extends beyond the tip of the tertials
Wing projection: the part of the wings which extends beyond the tail
tip when the bird is perched
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Sydney,
NSW
________________________________
From: Robert Inglis
<>
To: Birding-Aus <>
Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:35
AM
Subject: [Birding-Aus]
Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?
I am looking for a
term to use to refer to the extension of primary tips past the tip of the
tail.
Preferably the term should not cause any confusion with the
extension of primary tips past the tertials.
I am aware that “primary
projection” is commonly used by many birders to describe both extension of the
primary tips past the tertials and extension of the primary tips past the tip
of
the tail but this has been discussed on BirdingAus in the past and has been
considered by some learned birders to be wrong.
That is, wrong when used to
describe the extension of the primary tips past the tip of the tail.
One term
for the extension of the primary tips past the tip of the tail suggested in
that
discussion was “wing projection”.
I have since discovered the term “wing
point” to describe this condition in “The Shorebird Guide”, O’brien, Crossley
and Karlson, 2006.
In the Glossary of that publication “Wing Point” is
described as “The degree to which primaries project beyond the tail”.
This
looks like what I want but I have been unable to find this term being used in
any other of my bird books.
Searching on Google only brings up subjects on
real estate in the USA and political discussions.
I ask members of the
list to please share with me their ideas on which term is best used to describe
the extension of the primary tips past the tip of the tail.
Personally I
don’t favour “primary projection” but would be happy to use whichever of the
terms “wing projection” or “wing point” is favoured by a majority.
My aim is
to use a term which at least most birders can understand and accept.
I would,
of course, be interested to see if there is another term which is commonly used
and accepted....and is correct.
Bob Inglis
Sandstone
Point
Qld
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