Free trips

To: "Tony Russell" <>
Subject: Free trips
From: "Evan Beaver" <>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:52:07 +1000
You are mostly right Tony, but like a lot of the others you have
avoided discussion of personal risk.

The boat owner and the organisers wear the risks associated with the
trip. Yes if things go according to plan there is very little to do (I
even doubt this), but if they don't, who fixes it? Certainly not the


On 6/20/08, Tony Russell <> wrote:
> I did say I wouldn't comment further but having read other people's
> views I do have a few other points to make.
> I have no problem with paying participants covering the costs of the
> organisers provided it is made quite clear up front that this the basis
> of the cost structure, ie before registering and paying. This is a
> normal commercial transaction and in this situation of course a paying
> participant accepts the situation and is tacitly agreeing to cover
> leader costs.
> Just to be tedious, let's take a simple example.
> A boat owner wants $40,000 for a trip and his boat has 12 berths, two of
> which will be taken by the "leaders". The trip is promoted at $4000 each
> person which means that only ten people are paying. If costs were shared
> equally the tariff would be $3333 per person, so each paying participant
> is contributing $667 towards leader costs, and leaders are of course
> saving themselves $3333 each per trip.  More than enough to cover the
> cost of emails ( near free) and a few phone calls incurred in organising
> things. Organise one trip every year five years and the savings are
> around $16,000 each.
> I have, however, been on trips where this is not made clear beforehand
> and one could be excused for believing, perhaps naively,  that costs are
> shared equally amongst everybody, including the leader(s). Only during
> the actual trips was it revealed that the leader(s) was/were not paying
> and I found this a tad sneaky. Had I known this, it might have
> influenced my decision about participating, but I was denied this choice
> by the way the trip was promoted without details of the cost structure.
>  I guess I could have asked, and I certainly will in future, that is, if
> anyone would allow me on their trips after this discussion.
> One last thing. When a person decides to organise a trip they also
> decide to accept the amount of work and costs associated with the
> organising and I have little sympathy for their later bleating about how
> much work it is. In any venture the organiser has to accept the costs
> and risks.
> I admire people who take this sort of thing on and of course they
> provide a service to others who may otherwise never get to good birding
> spots and we should be grateful to them,  but if they take it on, they
> pay the price.
> Fin.  ( promise)
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Evan Beaver
Lapstone, Blue Mountains, NSW
lat=-33.77, lon=150.64

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