I'm enjoying this discussion.
1. I think the critical line about preserving "some version of nature
frozen" in time might apply to hippy morons. But it doesn't apply to my
support for active management of ecological conditions that facilitate the
possibility that endemic species might just be able to continue in their
natural existence without being bred/grown in someone's yard.
In other words the "frozen in time" argument against those who would
exterminate tickable invasive species is total garbage in my books and
should be actively consigned to the dustbin of history.
2. I note that sociologist and collector (he doubles as a presenter on the
ABC show Collectors) Adrian Franklin has been working for some time on
what he argues are fascist tendencies in the environmental, and
conservation biology fields. He asserts that it's all arbitrary about
what counts as nature and local and endemic and what does not count. I
believe he's presenting a paper called "Improper Nature: Species
Cleansing" or something similiar to the British Sociology Assoc soon. I
can't support such a line of argument however, and I think it's
ecologically ignorant.
3. What if I were to assert my individual right to tick off some exotic
virus that do-gooders are exterminating with antibiotics: what about my
personal right to "see" and tick H5N1?
cheers
Craig Williams
Newcastle
NSW
> Greg, Tony
>
> While I am not on Tony's side, I wonder where you draw the line? Dingoes
> are non-native, European humans are not native. Even the aboriginal
> people
> are non-native (only about 60,000 years). The desire for "preservation" of
> the environment as it was at some chosen point in time is always going to
> be
> subjective. So who has the right or the "correct" approach to deciding
> what
> is the chosen time to be?? And for what/whose purpose? Evolution also
> includes survival of the fittest, so aboriginal people in Australia suffer
> almost to extinction because European people are "fitter".
>
> I believe that our decisions and actions against "invasive" species is
> always going to be subjective on an individual basis and arguments why it
> is
> right or wrong are also always going to be subjective.
>
> And those who wish to preserve some version of nature frozen at a
> particular
> time will always fail, because we cannot control what happens in nature.
>
> Bob Cook
> Axedale VIC.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of Gregory Little
> Sent: Friday, 14 March 2008 11:25 AM
> To: 'Tony Russell'; 'birding-aus birding-aus'
> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Canada Geese
>
> Tony
>
> And Cane Toads are just harmless toads and Camphor Laurel is a lovely
> tree. Am disappointed to read your email. While culling or killing is
> unpalatable it is necessary and I am sure the Canada Geese were removed
> as humanely as possible. Who cares how. Regarding ferals, of course even
> Europeans in Australia are introduced exotics if you look at it one way
> but we may also be just a natural self introduction if you look at it
> another way. However, when we drag all sorts of non native plants and
> animals into an environment, anywhere on the planet, then they are going
> to have an impact on that environment if they flourish and some native
> plants and animals could potentially be lost and that environment
> degraded in ways that are not always obvious. It is not worth the risk
> of not nipping something in the bud (removing it) that could potentially
> be an environmental problem. I feel the stance should be if it is not
> native it does not belong so get rid of it (regardless of how nice it
> looks) and have policies for that affect.
>
> Greg Little
>
> Greg Little - Principal Consultant
> General Flora and Fauna
> PO Box 526
> Wallsend, NSW, 2287, Australia
> Ph 02 49 556609
> Fx 02 49 556671
> www.gff.com.au
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of Tony Russell
> Sent: Friday, 14 March 2008 10:23 AM
> To: 'Tony Russell'; 'birding-aus birding-aus'
> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Canada Geese
>
> I just wonder how the geese were disposed of. Were they shot, injected,
> or what ?
>
> I guess those doing it worked under the charade of "euthanasia" - a
> euphemism for killing, just as "culling" is another euphemism for
> killing.
>
> Presumably euthanasia and culling are more palatable terms which assuage
> the killers' consciences.
>
> Why is it that humans think they have the right, the arrogance, to kill
> other life forms ?
>
> I understand the conservation arguments re feral invasion and the
> problems this may cause, but we've survived the influx of Cattle Egrets,
> Starlings, House Sparrows, Common Miners,etc, and the incursions
> Long-billed Corellas are making on the east coast - and Perth now has
> quite a good population of these too, and the way Eastern Rosellas have
> spread across into the Adelaide area. No great disasters. It's not like
> foxes and cats which have destroyed populations of native animals -
> these are birds we are talking about, harmless birds.
>
> T.
>
>
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