Its hardly a case of ignoring them. its more a matter of taking steps
to see that they don't over-run anything.
We have enough environmental problems destroying native diversity so
why introduce others by any means. recognising any as Asutralian
birds (or anything else) encourages people to accept the introduced
species.
Do we recognise rabbits as Australian Animals?
Yes, they live in Australia but I'm sure they are a few enlightened
enough people in this country to wish they didn't.
Let's not encourage ferals for the satisfaction and self promotion of
a few mad tickers.
Peter
On 12/12/2007, at 12:54 PM, Evan Beaver wrote:
Nikolas,
I agree with the thrust of your statement but differ on interpretation
of one point. If the aim is to record where birds are nowadays, why
does it matter how they got there? If Australian dams become over-run
with say, greylag geese or mallards that are escapees/releases, are
they not there? I think ignoring birds because of their potential
heritage is foolish in the extreme and could ignore valuable data for
tracking trends etc.
EB
On 12/11/07, Nikolas Haass <> wrote:
Keith,
I "give a shit what Rare Birds Committees think"! I can't speak
for BARC.
However, in my "American life" I was a member of the New Jersey
Rare Birds Committee (NJBRC, the New Jersey counterpart of BARC)
and in my "German life" I was a member of the Hessen Rare Birds
Committee (AKH) and the Schleswig-Holstein Rare Birds Committee
(AKSH) (two German counterparts of BARC). The idea of Rare Birds
Committees is NOT to 'kill' a tick on someone's 'list'. No, the
most important job of Rare Birds Committees is to peer review the
documentation of a 'rare bird' (reports and photos, sketches,
sound recordings - or whatever you submit), to collect, publish,
and archive the records that prove that a 'rare bird' occurred.
Therefore, documentation must eliminate any other species that
might be confused with the claimed rarity. Some documentation is
clear cut, such as a good photograph which shows identification
characters. Some documentation is less clear cut, and that's why
there is a large committee with a variety of specialties, opinions,
and skills to vote on the evidence. To learn about recent range
expansions of certain species it is also important to get an idea
if a bird came on its own or was released by someone.
Serious scientific journals only use data that were accepted by
the responsible Rare Birds Committee for their analysis. That's
why I'd like to encourage observers of a 'rarity' to document it,
so that it can be used for scientific studies.
Cheers,
Nikolas
----------------
Nikolas Haass
Sydney, NSW
----- Original Message ----
From: Keith Weekes <>
To: Frank O'Connor <>
Cc: Tony Palliser <>; birding-
; Bill Ramsay <>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:26:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Magpie Pica pica in Port Hedland WA
Well it's a bird and at least it's in the geographical confines of
what most
of us think of as "Australia".
Who really gives a shit what BARC thinks anyway? More interested
in weird
vagrants found in territorial waters than anything mere mortals
could hope
to twitch.
On 05/12/2007, Frank O'Connor <> wrote:
There was considered to be a good chance that the bird escaped / was
released from a cage on a boat. Apparently they are kept fairly
commonly
for their song.
Personally, I would have no problem with counting a bird hitching
a ride
on
a boat (especially for a state list), but not if it probably came
from a
cage. I don't have a lot of problems accepting that it might be
shot in
this case. 7 Tree Sparrows were recently shot in Port Hedland,
presumably
ship assisted.
At 04:19 PM 4/12/2007, Simon JR Muirhead wrote:
Ive been thinking about this, and I not sure which side of the
fence I
sit
on. While this species is not specifically migratory, it still
has made
it
too Australia and the bird was recorded out of captivity. If the
bird had
floated here on raft as an example without the aid of human
intervention,
would that make the sighting more acceptable? I guess the point
I would
like
to make is where is the line drawn at an acceptable sighting, as
animals
in
general have been crossing bodies of water accidentally for
millons of
years, and does it make a difference if it is aided by humans? I
certainly
wont be giving out any ear bashings, but the question you raise
has got
me
intrigued and I would like to hear what other people think as im a
relative
newcomer to the field but I am lucky enough to do bird surveys
for work.
Regards, Simon Muirhead
-----Original Message-----
From:
On Behalf Of Mike Carter
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:14 PM
To: ; Frank O'Connor
Cc: Tony Palliser; Bill Ramsay
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re: Magpie Pica pica in Port Hedland WA
I know of two previous reports of the common Eurasian and N
American
Magpie
(aka Black-billed Magpie) Pica pica in Australia, both I think
in the
last
15 years. One was at Newcastle, NSW and the other near the Hay
Point Coal
Terminal 37 km S of Mackay, QLD. So all occurrences have been
near busy
international ports.
My objections to accept these reports as valid records and
therefore to
twitch them, was received with much acrimony in some quarters
and I still
occasionally get earbashed on the matter. Whilst in my view ship
assistance
per se, i.e. the bird hitched a ride on a moving object at sea
is no bar
to
acceptance, this species is not a migrant but is a common urban
bird in
China and environs. They are sedentary birds, weak, laborious
flyers,
reluctant to cross water. See 'Birds of Western Palearctic' where
dispersal
and movements are measured in metres rather than km! Therefore
I think
they
boarded the ship at the point of departure or were even taken
aboard as
pets
and released here. They could not have made the journey without
being
looked
after by man and were really pets that escaped or were deliberately
released. I'm comfortable counting Ostrich seen in the 70's but
some
think
that is stretching it a bit but if I saw or heard a Magpie I
wouldn't be
happy to count it!
So no Frank, I don't agree that the Port Hedland bird is the
first, or
for
that matter the third record for Australia!
Mike Carter
30 Canadian Bay Road
Mount Eliza VIC 3930
Tel (03) 9787 7136
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