Magpie Pica pica in Port Hedland WA

To: "Evan Beaver" <>
Subject: Magpie Pica pica in Port Hedland WA
From: peter crow <>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:56:52 +1000
Its hardly a case of ignoring them. its more a matter of taking steps to see that they don't over-run anything.

We have enough environmental problems destroying native diversity so why introduce others by any means. recognising any as Asutralian birds (or anything else) encourages people to accept the introduced species.

Do we recognise rabbits as Australian Animals?

Yes, they live in Australia but I'm sure they are a few enlightened enough people in this country to wish they didn't.

Let's not encourage ferals for the satisfaction and self promotion of a few mad tickers.


On 12/12/2007, at 12:54 PM, Evan Beaver wrote:


I agree with the thrust of your statement but differ on interpretation
of one point. If the aim is to record where birds are nowadays, why
does it matter how they got there? If Australian dams become over-run
with say, greylag geese or mallards that are escapees/releases, are
they not there? I think ignoring birds because of their potential
heritage is foolish in the extreme and could ignore valuable data for
tracking trends etc.


On 12/11/07, Nikolas Haass <> wrote:

I "give a shit what Rare Birds Committees think"! I can't speak for BARC. However, in my "American life" I was a member of the New Jersey Rare Birds Committee (NJBRC, the New Jersey counterpart of BARC) and in my "German life" I was a member of the Hessen Rare Birds Committee (AKH) and the Schleswig-Holstein Rare Birds Committee (AKSH) (two German counterparts of BARC). The idea of Rare Birds Committees is NOT to 'kill' a tick on someone's 'list'. No, the most important job of Rare Birds Committees is to peer review the documentation of a 'rare bird' (reports and photos, sketches, sound recordings - or whatever you submit), to collect, publish, and archive the records that prove that a 'rare bird' occurred. Therefore, documentation must eliminate any other species that might be confused with the claimed rarity. Some documentation is clear cut, such as a good photograph which shows identification characters. Some documentation is less clear cut, and that's why there is a large committee with a variety of specialties, opinions, and skills to vote on the evidence. To learn about recent range expansions of certain species it is also important to get an idea if a bird came on its own or was released by someone. Serious scientific journals only use data that were accepted by the responsible Rare Birds Committee for their analysis. That's why I'd like to encourage observers of a 'rarity' to document it, so that it can be used for scientific studies.



Nikolas Haass

Sydney, NSW

----- Original Message ----
From: Keith Weekes <>
To: Frank O'Connor <>
Cc: Tony Palliser <>; birding- ; Bill Ramsay <>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:26:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Magpie Pica pica in Port Hedland WA

Well it's a bird and at least it's in the geographical confines of what most
of us think of as "Australia".

Who really gives a shit what BARC thinks anyway? More interested in weird vagrants found in territorial waters than anything mere mortals could hope
to twitch.

On 05/12/2007, Frank O'Connor <> wrote:

There was considered to be a good chance that the bird escaped / was
released from a cage on a boat. Apparently they are kept fairly commonly
for their song.

Personally, I would have no problem with counting a bird hitching a ride
a boat (especially for a state list), but not if it probably came from a cage. I don't have a lot of problems accepting that it might be shot in this case. 7 Tree Sparrows were recently shot in Port Hedland, presumably
ship assisted.

At 04:19 PM 4/12/2007, Simon JR Muirhead wrote:
Ive been thinking about this, and I not sure which side of the fence I
on. While this species is not specifically migratory, it still has made
too Australia and the bird was recorded out of captivity. If the bird had floated here on raft as an example without the aid of human intervention, would that make the sighting more acceptable? I guess the point I would
to make is where is the line drawn at an acceptable sighting, as animals
general have been crossing bodies of water accidentally for millons of
years, and does it make a difference if it is aided by humans? I
wont be giving out any ear bashings, but the question you raise has got
intrigued and I would like to hear what other people think as im a
newcomer to the field but I am lucky enough to do bird surveys for work.

Regards, Simon Muirhead

-----Original Message-----
 On Behalf Of Mike Carter
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:14 PM
To: ; Frank O'Connor
Cc: Tony Palliser; Bill Ramsay
Subject: [Birding-Aus] Re: Magpie Pica pica in Port Hedland WA

I know of two previous reports of the common Eurasian and N American
(aka Black-billed Magpie) Pica pica in Australia, both I think in the
15 years. One was at Newcastle, NSW and the other near the Hay Point Coal Terminal 37 km S of Mackay, QLD. So all occurrences have been near busy
international ports.

My objections to accept these reports as valid records and therefore to twitch them, was received with much acrimony in some quarters and I still
occasionally get earbashed on the matter. Whilst in my view ship
per se, i.e. the bird hitched a ride on a moving object at sea is no bar
acceptance, this species is not a migrant but is a common urban bird in China and environs. They are sedentary birds, weak, laborious flyers,
reluctant to cross water. See 'Birds of Western Palearctic' where
and movements are measured in metres rather than km! Therefore I think
boarded the ship at the point of departure or were even taken aboard as
and released here. They could not have made the journey without being
after by man and were really pets that escaped or were deliberately
released. I'm comfortable counting Ostrich seen in the 70's but some
that is stretching it a bit but if I saw or heard a Magpie I wouldn't be
happy to count it!

So no Frank, I don't agree that the Port Hedland bird is the first, or
that matter the third record for Australia!

Mike Carter
30 Canadian Bay Road
Mount Eliza  VIC 3930
Tel  (03) 9787 7136

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>

The University of NSW School of Computer and Engineering takes no responsibility for the contents of this archive. It is purely a compilation of material sent by many people to the birding-aus mailing list. It has not been checked for accuracy nor its content verified in any way. If you wish to get material removed from the archive or have other queries about the archive e-mail Andrew Taylor at this address: andrewt@cse.unsw.EDU.AU