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Re: [ts-7000] Re: Greg Kroah-Hartman's response to SD-flash close source

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Subject: Re: [ts-7000] Re: Greg Kroah-Hartman's response to SD-flash close source driver solution:
From: Paulo Marques <>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:17:29 +0000
Breton M. Saunders wrote:
> Unfortunately, Linux needs the ability to support proprietary drivers...

Couldn't disagree more. One of the great strengths of Linux comes from 
the fact that its internal API may evolve without worrying about 
backward compatibility with drivers.

Just think about it: now that 64 bit machines are more and more common, 
Linux just evolved naturally into 64 bits whereas some other proprietary 
OS had tons of problems with getting new drivers from vendors to support 
their 64 bit version.

This is just a small example of why closed source drivers are bad for 
the end user in the long run.

>> I disagree.  Inevitably what it would come down to is that somebody 
>> would have to be able to convince a judge somewhere that the closed 
>> source BIOS is a derived work of the GPL'ed kernel.  That would be 
>> quite a stretch if the "BIOS" uses no GPL'ed functions or header 
>> files and can compile and be useful without Linux or an OS at all.

Agreed. I also can not see how it could be considered  illegal to have a 
closed source BIOS, and it should be a very tough case on a court of law 
to prove otherwise.

That doesn't mean it is a good thing, though ;)

>> I believe Linux has an NDIS wrapper driver to allow closed source 
>> Windows network drivers to be used with Linux on the PC.  Does this 
>> mean that these Windows drivers must now be made GPL?  This is really 
>> the same thing.  

The legal status of the ndiswrapper is in an even deeper gray area than 
a closed source BIOS. So I don't think it is a good example, actually.

A closed source BIOS doesn't interact directly with your kernel 
structures, it doesn't register new devices, it doesn't use any of the 
kernel resources, etc. You just call its services and expect them to 
perform a certain well defined task, without any interactions with your 
kernel.

> NVidia drivers anyone?
> At least the NVidia drivers rock.

NVidia actually goes to great lengths to keep the drivers compatible as 
the kernel evolves, and all that effort would be mostly gone if they 
would just embrace the "linux way".

I for one, would like to know what those many MEGABYTES of code are 
doing in my kernel space...

>>>> PCs have close source BIOSes. 
>>>>       
>>> Some do, some do not.
>>>     
>> True, 99.9% do, .1% do not.  Seriously, this seems a ridiculous 
>> statement-- what brand PC currently ships with an open-source BIOS?
>>   
>   Yeah.  Agreed.  I have never seen a PC using an open source bios.

Yes, I also agree that this is a weak argument, and the percentages 
there should be close to the truth ;)

However, some manufacturers are starting to ship motherboards with 
LinuxBIOS, or at least officially support LinuxBIOS for their boards, 
and that is a trend that we should certainly encourage.

>>> That's not true, we have SD drivers in the Linux kernel now.
>>>     
>> They are probably MMC drivers, not full SD.  SD cards are backward 
>> compatible with MMC.  Either that or they were developed illegally or 
>> reverse engineered in a country that allows that.  SD association 
>> licenses are pretty clear.  You might be able to get away with it if 
>> you don't use the word "SD" in any marketing, advertising, or 
>> documentation for your product but that seems a dishonest way to do 
>> business.

I haven't seen the code in depth, but it seems that there are several 
drivers that talk to "secure digital host controllers" that probably 
hide away the low-level details in the hardware itself.

> The SD drivers in the kernel are painfully slow.  I've used them on
> x86-64 - plugging a SD card into a Dell 24" monitor with USB - the SD
> card runs at about 30 kilobytes per second.  Its totally useless.

This is probably completely unrelated. A SD card reader through USB 
usually acts as a "mass storage" device and doesn't use the SD kernel 
drivers at all.

You probably were using a distro that set the "sync" option for 
removable devices, and as a consequence the write speed dropped to 30kb/s.

-- 
Paulo Marques
Software Development Department - Grupo PIE, S.A.
Phone: +351 252 290600, Fax: +351 252 290601
Web: www.grupopie.com

"All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy."


 
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