ts-7000
[Top] [All Lists]

[ts-7000] Re: pc-104 expantion

To:
Subject: [ts-7000] Re: pc-104 expantion
From: "Frank Pagliughi" <>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 19:29:35 -0000
Thanks for the quick reply.

We've been using Altera MAX-3000A class chips, typically the EMP3064.
We designed several boards for customers around the same basic decode
logic. All use one or more "target" chips that have a few registers
mapped into I/O space. None of the boards use the OSC line.

I wrote some low-level "sanity" diagnostic tests for each board.
Typical would be to just write some values to R/W registers on the
peripheral board then read them back, and compare to the written
values. This is just the first level of tests that each board must pass.

I tried two different peripheral boards with the TS-7200. Each had a
(different) USB peripheral/slave chip that used an indexed register
set. One used 16-bit read/writes, the other 8-bit. The test was: write
the index, write the value, write the index, read the value. Compare.

I would get some results that were close (such as one of two bytes
read back were correct, the other garbage or the first byte repeated).
Sometimes it would fail 5 times out of 100 tries.

Could there be some other timing issues? Or something like that I
could look for? I don't have the leeway to change the hardware at this
point, but I wrote all the drivers and can mess with software to my
heart's content.

Thanks,
Frank


--- In  "Jesse Off" <> wrote:
>
> --- In  "Frank Pagliughi" <>
wrote:
> >
> > Actually, it seems that PC/104 signals from many controller boards has
> > gone to 3.3V even on x86 motherboards - especially those using the
> > newer embedded processors, such as the AMD SC520 and similar.
> > Normally, the power lines, VCC, are at 5V, but signals generated by
> > the controller, such as RD & WR, only drive high to 3.3V. All inputs
> > to the motherboard would be 5V tolerant. 
> > 
> > This has created some problems with older peripheral boards,
> > especially those using discrete decode logic. A little ringing on the
> > control lines (especially /IOR & /IOW) create some strange behavior.
> > Usually a small series resistor on the line coming into the board
> > would fix the problem - assuming the peripheral board was of your own
> > design and could be changed. I believe PC/104 was originally spec'd to
> > have RC termination on the lines, anyway (??)
> 
> No, PC/104 doesn't include this, though we have seen many custom
> boards use this type of "band-aid" RC termination solution to deal
> with large stacks of boards on the PC/104 bus.  The TS-7xxx boards use
> controlled slew rate to mitigate ringing as much as possible on the
> strobe signals.
> 
> You are also correct in that all signals driven by the CPU are 3.3V. 
> The original PC104/ISA spec was indeed 5V but they were also specified
> as TTL signaling.  TTL signaling at 5V is 100% compatible with 3.3V
> CMOS logic since 3.3V is above the 5V TTL input threshold of 2.4V and
> output threshold of 2.8V.  
> 
> A lot of people take advantage of the fact that the TS-7xxx boards
> only put 3.3V on the PC104 bus.  If you intend to control what other
> boards get plugged in to the PC104 bus, you don't have to 5V harden
> your custom board. (saving costs, board area, reducing board
> complexity and avoiding extra propagation delays from a buffer chip)
> 
> > 
> > We never had any problems with peripheral boards that used a CPLD for
> > decode, even when the motherboard was sourcing 3.3V on the control
> > lines. I believe all or CPLDs were running at 3.3V with 5V tolerant
> > inputs, anyway.
> 
> It seems 5V tolerance isn't as marketable a feature anymore to IC
> manufacturers and newer CPLDs such as the MAXII family from Altera
> aren't 5V tolerant.  The Xilinx CPLDs we have traditionally used all
> are 5V tolerant.  Our designs have typically used LVC245 chips to
> buffer the non 5V parts from the 5V parts.  
> 
> >
> > That said... we were never able to get any of our PC/104 periperal
> > boards running reliably with a TS-7200, though admittedly, we didn't
> > put much time into finding out why. We may look to revisit this soon,
> > since we have a number of upcoming applications that would go well
> > with the board.
> > 
> > Any insight would be appreciated.
> 
> Every board we've tried hasn't had a problem electrically-- what we've
> found however is a lot of software drivers in OS's without a ISA bus
> abstraction layer (Linux, most RTOS's, etc..) needed some changes. 
> However, one thing we know that may cause a problem is if your board
> uses the PC/104 14.318Mhz OSC pin, this clock has somewhat high jitter
> on the TS-7xxx.  Normally this isn't a problem, but if you're using
> that line in a DLL or PLL to synthesize another frequency, you may run
> into problems with the DLL/PLL acheiving lock.  There is a register
> that you can poke on the TS-7xxx to send a 0 jitter clock, but you
> will get 14.7456Mhz instead of 14.318Mhz.
> 
> //Jesse Off
>





------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/2jUsvC/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/CFFolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ts-7000/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>
Admin

Disclaimer: Neither Andrew Taylor nor the University of NSW School of Computer and Engineering take any responsibility for the contents of this archive. It is purely a compilation of material sent by many people to the birding-aus mailing list. It has not been checked for accuracy nor its content verified in any way. If you wish to get material removed from the archive or have other queries about the archive e-mail Andrew Taylor at this address: andrewt@cse.unsw.EDU.AU