There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. beginner equipment advice needed
From: enigmavariation62
1b. Re: beginner equipment advice needed
From: micro Phonic
1c. Re: beginner equipment advice needed
From: Emanuele Costantini
1d. Re: beginner equipment advice needed
From: Dom Hall
2. Anthrophony vs anthropophony
From: Peter Shute
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. beginner equipment advice needed
Posted by: enigmavariation62
Date: Thu Nov 9, 2017 11:09 am ((PST))
Greetings: Thank you for the excellent information available through this
group. This is a new interest of mine and I am very excited about learning
more. I had the idea to make audio records of my longer, more remote solo
backpacking trips. I started using a Zoom H2n. I have listened to these
recordings and would like to improve the quality of the recordings by greatly
reducing the noise created by my recording equipment as well as handling noise.
Thank you in advance for your patience -- I have begun to educate myself on the
technology so that I can understand the specs and underlying principles
involved, but am not confident that I have the knowledge to made sound
decisions about equipment upgrades. Any help you are willing to offer is much
appreciated.
I would like a set up that is small enough to be carried in a case on a belt
or accessible location outside my backpack so that I can stop walking and pull
it out and record, without a lot of set up. I will be recording for, say, 5-15
minutes at a time, when I hear interesting soundscapes as I walk. (My practice
so far has been to basically edit in the field, stopping the recording when an
unnatural sound presents itself. I can say that in N. Georgia and along the
TN/NC line there is a jet plane overhead every 4.5 minutes for most of the
day.)
Weight is an important consideration because I am backpacking and carrying all
my other gear. If I can get a recorder and mics for a total weight of
approximately 1 pound or less, that would be ideal.
I am often out for 7-10 days so need long battery life and the ability to
recharge from a power pack or carry spare batteries that are not overly heavy.
I can imagine carrying 2 - 3 spare sets of AA batteries, for example.
It will not surprise you to hear that I found the Zoom H2n to produce a
tremendous amount of recorder noise. I do like to go to, and record, very quiet
environments. I would like to minimize equipment noise to the greatest possible
degree within my other criteria. I have looked at specs and listened to samples
online and am interested, I think, in the Marantz PCM 661. I have seen "tuned"
versions on the Oade Brothers website that are interesting. I think the Fostex
FR2 LE is a little large for my purposes, but I would consider it. I am also
considering the Sony PCM D100, but am not sure the lack of XLR connectors and
phantom power should concern me. I like the idea that at least sometimes I
could record with internal microphones. I am not sure whether I need phantom
power or just PIP at this stage. Any thoughts on comparing these 3 or other
similar ones I should look at?
I am even more uncertain about microphones. For my application, I like the
idea of some small in-ear mics or lavaliers. I hope it is possible to use mics
that are good quality but can be in place in my ear or attached to my glasses
or clothing or whatever and ready to go without a lot of set up. I have looked
at FEL Communications Clippy EM 172 mics and Telinga clip on microphones. I
know the selection will be limited by whether or not I have phantom power in
the recorder or external source. I am leaning toward PIP for battery life. I am
not qualified to interpret specs to figure out what mics will improve the sound
over the internal mics of these recorders.
Another issue is wind noise. This has marred a number of my recordings in
spite of using a foam windscreen. Besides a better windscreen, are there
equipment considerations to reduce wind noise?
Cost is less an issue than weight and battery life but I am looking for an
intermediate upgrade that will let me improve and learn with experience and
study. I am looking at an approximately $1000 budget but could spend more if it
makes sense.
So, in summary, are there recommendations for a one pound, $1000 set up with
long battery life? Recommendations that I change or add to those criteria? Or
on how to gain the understanding to make these decisions myself? Also, any
recommendations on books, workshops, etc to help me with foundational knowledge
to assist me in using whatever the equipment is would be appreciated.
Beth Whitaker
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: beginner equipment advice needed
Posted by: "micro Phonic"
om4kbkt4b4u45thq3w3x5bvqs3bweu2lnw2ewjtv
Date: Thu Nov 9, 2017 11:46 am ((PST))
Great you are out there getting the sounds.
In brief quality of sound may not come pocket size.Perhaps bigger isn't
better either .Know your gear and your recording environment.
Like you I like to travel light so for many years my gear has been:Roland
R05, Sennheiser ME66. Both of these along with appropriate cables and
Rycote softie wind cover, fit in a modified fisherman's shoulder bag.
Ready for action.
If I want even less, I bring just the recorder using inbuilt mics plus a
Rycote softie. A converted shoulder camera bag fits all.
Other bits of useful gear includes a hydrophone which packs neatly into a
plastic bag. Of course plenty of batteries and a wet sack in case it rains.
All of this costs roughly€ 500_600.
I know that I could improve on recorder quality. However sensible
recording techniques do help.
Audacity free editing software cleans things up. But it is no substitute
for good technique in the field.
Enjoy what you've got for now and work on assessing each situation.
MartinB
On 9 Nov 2017 19:09, " [naturerecordists]" <
> wrote:
>
>
> Greetings: Thank you for the excellent information available through this
> group. This is a new interest of mine and I am very excited about learning
> more. I had the idea to make audio records of my longer, more remote solo
> backpacking trips. I started using a Zoom H2n. I have listened to these
> recordings and would like to improve the quality of the recordings by
> greatly reducing the noise created by my recording equipment as well as
> handling noise. Thank you in advance for your patience -- I have begun to
> educate myself on the technology so that I can understand the specs and
> underlying principles involved, but am not confident that I have the
> knowledge to made sound decisions about equipment upgrades. Any help you
> are willing to offer is much appreciated.
>
>
> I would like a set up that is small enough to be carried in a case on a
> belt or accessible location outside my backpack so that I can stop walking
> and pull it out and record, without a lot of set up. I will be recording
> for, say, 5-15 minutes at a time, when I hear interesting soundscapes as I
> walk. (My practice so far has been to basically edit in the field, stopping
> the recording when an unnatural sound presents itself. I can say that in N.
> Georgia and along the TN/NC line there is a jet plane overhead every 4.5
> minutes for most of the day.)
>
>
> Weight is an important consideration because I am backpacking and carrying
> all my other gear. If I can get a recorder and mics for a total weight of
> approximately 1 pound or less, that would be ideal.
>
>
> I am often out for 7-10 days so need long battery life and the ability to
> recharge from a power pack or carry spare batteries that are not overly
> heavy. I can imagine carrying 2 - 3 spare sets of AA batteries, for
> example.
>
>
> It will not surprise you to hear that I found the Zoom H2n to produce a
> tremendous amount of recorder noise. I do like to go to, and record, very
> quiet environments. I would like to minimize equipment noise to the
> greatest possible degree within my other criteria. I have looked at specs
> and listened to samples online and am interested, I think, in the Marantz
> PCM 661. I have seen "tuned" versions on the Oade Brothers website that are
> interesting. I think the Fostex FR2 LE is a little large for my purposes,
> but I would consider it. I am also considering the Sony PCM D100, but am
> not sure the lack of XLR connectors and phantom power should concern me. I
> like the idea that at least sometimes I could record with internal
> microphones. I am not sure whether I need phantom power or just PIP at this
> stage. Any thoughts on comparing these 3 or other similar ones I should
> look at?
>
>
> I am even more uncertain about microphones. For my application, I like the
> idea of some small in-ear mics or lavaliers. I hope it is possible to use
> mics that are good quality but can be in place in my ear or attached to my
> glasses or clothing or whatever and ready to go without a lot of set up. I
> have looked at FEL Communications Clippy EM 172 mics and Telinga clip on
> microphones. I know the selection will be limited by whether or not I have
> phantom power in the recorder or external source. I am leaning toward PIP
> for battery life. I am not qualified to interpret specs to figure out what
> mics will improve the sound over the internal mics of these recorders.
>
>
> Another issue is wind noise. This has marred a number of my recordings in
> spite of using a foam windscreen. Besides a better windscreen, are there
> equipment considerations to reduce wind noise?
>
> Cost is less an issue than weight and battery life but I am looking for an
> intermediate upgrade that will let me improve and learn with experience and
> study. I am looking at an approximately $1000 budget but could spend more
> if it makes sense.
>
>
> So, in summary, are there recommendations for a one pound, $1000 set up
> with long battery life? Recommendations that I change or add to those
> criteria? Or on how to gain the understanding to make these decisions
> myself? Also, any recommendations on books, workshops, etc to help me with
> foundational knowledge to assist me in using whatever the equipment is
> would be appreciated.
>
>
> Beth Whitaker
>
>
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: beginner equipment advice needed
Posted by: "Emanuele Costantini" lamacchiacosta
Date: Thu Nov 9, 2017 1:11 pm ((PST))
Hello Beth,
I have (also) a Zoom H2N, the black one, with the Brahma mod, packed
neatly in a small back pack I bring anywhere when travelling. On its own
it can give me a 360˚ recording, ideal for atmos tracks.
I find that recorder surprisingly good with a bearable amount of BG
noise. Through its minijack input I can also feed a pair of DPA 4061
(via PIP) and a couple of jez's contact mics or a couple of (Jez's)
hydrophones to extend the possibilities and stereo techniques with which
I can achieve a moltitude of different results with such a little machine.
As you already find out, handling noise and wind are the main issues to
get through. I ended up modding a commercial Rycote WS10 blimp to fit
the recorder fully in, so no wind or my hand will ever touch it and
usually with the addiction of a gorilla tripod I can attach it to
anything without the need of a tripod. Knowing that I am a keen
photographer as well I have to have a camera tripod with me anyway, so I
bought an extra plate for the sound rig as well. The tripod is a
Manfrotto BeFree.
As you can see in my traveller kit the most expensive piece is the blimp
and all together fits in the budget you have in mind. My ultra expensive
kit rests back home when I am on holidays and I don't miss it that much
with my actual set up. Obviously the BG noise is a bit more than my 788T
or 552 or F8 but is still bearable and perfectly useable also on very
quiet environments, if you think that the H2N price is almost nothing.
Make sure your H2N is the newest generation, as they improved the
electronics on all their recorders after the F8 came out.
Weight is a main concern for me as well because of my unknown back
issues that 4 years ago gave me a nice full year stuck in bed. All this
rig (camera and lens included) fits perfeclty in a Mafrotto Advanced
Travel Rucksack.
Battery consumption is astonishing. When I got it first I was travelling
with external camera lithium batteries but then I tried AAs and battery
life is quite long. Usually I bring a couple of sets of receargeables
but using lithium AAs I can forget to change batteries for few days.
Emanuele.
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: beginner equipment advice needed
Posted by: "Dom Hall" dominic.patagonia
Date: Thu Nov 9, 2017 2:48 pm ((PST))
Hi BethDepending on your budget two pocket size recorders that work well (I
have both) are the Olympus LS100 and the Sony PCM D100The Olympus I've used for
years - its solid, has a good battery, and most importantly the preamps are
pretty quiet - but the built in mics are not up there with the sony, though I
mostly use with external mics anyway as it has phantom power if you need that
in the future. The Sony I got more recently. The sound quality is superb and
there is virtually no self noise, especially with the S/N100db activated. I
will say this about the Sony though - it is terrible with wind noise. A whisper
breeze kills it. You need to wrap it in deadcats ;)From what you've described
I'd look at the LS100. It has some quirks in terms of UX but the actual quality
is very good. And it's small enough to chuck in a pocket. CheersDom
Dominic Garcia-Hallwww.antbirds.com
On Thursday, November 9, 2017 9:11 PM, "Emanuele Costantini
[naturerecordists]" <>
wrote:
Hello Beth, I have (also) a Zoom H2N, the black one, with the Brahma mod,
packed neatly in a small back pack I bring anywhere when travelling. On its own
it can give me a 360˚ recording, ideal for atmos tracks.
I find that recorder surprisingly good with a bearable amount of BG noise.
Through its minijack input I can also feed a pair of DPA 4061 (via PIP) and a
couple of jez's contact mics or a couple of (Jez's) hydrophones to extend the
possibilities and stereo techniques with which I can achieve a moltitude of
different results with such a little machine.
As you already find out, handling noise and wind are the main issues to get
through. I ended up modding a commercial Rycote WS10 blimp to fit the recorder
fully in, so no wind or my hand will ever touch it and usually with the
addiction of a gorilla tripod I can attach it to anything without the need of a
tripod. Knowing that I am a keen photographer as well I have to have a camera
tripod with me anyway, so I bought an extra plate for the sound rig as well.
The tripod is a Manfrotto BeFree.
As you can see in my traveller kit the most expensive piece is the blimp and
all together fits in the budget you have in mind. My ultra expensive kit rests
back home when I am on holidays and I don't miss it that much with my actual
set up. Obviously the BG noise is a bit more than my 788T or 552 or F8 but is
still bearable and perfectly useable also on very quiet environments, if you
think that the H2N price is almost nothing.
Make sure your H2N is the newest generation, as they improved the electronics
on all their recorders after the F8 came out. Weight is a main concern for me
as well because of my unknown back issues that 4 years ago gave me a nice full
year stuck in bed. All this rig (camera and lens included) fits perfeclty in a
Mafrotto Advanced Travel Rucksack.
Battery consumption is astonishing. When I got it first I was travelling with
external camera lithium batteries but then I tried AAs and battery life is
quite long. Usually I bring a couple of sets of receargeables but using lithium
AAs I can forget to change batteries for few days.
Emanuele.
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Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2. Anthrophony vs anthropophony
Posted by: "Peter Shute" pshute2
Date: Thu Nov 9, 2017 12:41 pm ((PST))
I believe it was in 2014 that it was decided that the correct term for human
generated noise is "anthropophony", rather than "anthrophony".
It looks like someone updated the wikipedia article
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropophony) to reflect that sometime last
year, but the article no longer contains any references to "anthrophony". It
doesn't seem right that the word has simply vanished, and I wonder if it would
be appropriate to include a paragraph explaining the initial erroneous use of
the word.
If one looks up anthrophony in wikipedia, it does redirect one to the
anthropophony article, but apart from that, it makes it appear as though it
never happened, which may be confusing to people reading books and articles
that contain the old term.
Peter Shute
Messages in this topic (1)
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
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