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Re: pcm m10 setup

Subject: Re: pcm m10 setup
From: "rock_scallop" rock_scallop
Date: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:09 pm ((PDT))
Hi Russ,

The M10 inputs are not as quiet as the old Minidisc recorders, and the self=
-noise of most microphones in your range is going to be kind of high.  Stil=
l you have a couple factors working in your favor.  The setting with two st=
reams entering a river may have a broadband and high frequency component su=
fficient to mask the mic and input noise.  The trumpeter swans, distant cac=
ophony and echoes may be robust enough to illuminate the distances beyond t=
he stream sounds.  A possible challenge with the setting is the flowing wat=
er sounds from the streams at a quarter mile away may actually seem overbea=
ring when heard in a recording.

If you will need a long run of cable consider an extra .50 to 1 dollar per =
foot.  I power an Art Phantom II phantom power supply with a sled of 12 AA =
alkaline batteries, which is good for more than 24 hours in normal operatin=
g temperatures.

I think a SASS style DIY array using omnidirectional mics could work well i=
n this setting, though there are a variety of other arrays that would be wo=
rth considering.

The plug-in-power option of small Primo EM172 capsules or the Shure WL183 i=
s certainly in your budget however both will push your limits for self-nois=
e.  A jump to somewhat lower noise phantom power mics like the AT4022 is go=
ing to push the limits of your budget.

The Rode NT1A is affordable at $230 each, but these monsters are not for ev=
eryone: they are heavy and very sensitive tripod and wind vibrations =96 ye=
t they have worked out well for me.   The cardiod polar pattern of the NTIA=
 is such that an angle between the axes of any more than 60 degrees will ex=
hibit a hole in the center of the stereo image. This makes the NT1A best fo=
r long reach into a forward direction.

John Hartog
rockscallop.org


--- In  "Russ C" <> wrote=
:
>
> John;
>    Thanks so much for your reply;
> The area i have in mind is on the Kvichak river in the bush.  The Spring =
migration sounds are simply amazing especially the Trumpeter swans as they =
jockey for position during this season. Also in the mix will be loons and a=
ssorted waterfowl(sometimes in May when the light really starts to get long=
er it will sound like someone having a block party down the river with all =
the racket); and i envision capturing the newly arriving warblers up close =
in the foreground of the soundscape. Maybe even the situation will be right=
 to get the Beluga coming upriver with all their huffing and puffing chasin=
g the spring smolt run.  There is limited opportunities in the winter, but =
some wolf activity off in the distance will give some practice with the equ=
ipment so will get all the stuff needed now.
>    The lodge i caretake for the winter sits up on a high bank with 2 stre=
ams entering the river from the opposite side about a quarter mile away; Th=
ere is this sort of natural amphitheater created where you can get an echo =
to bounce back. The sound really carries and one can as i said easily hear =
a mile up and down; in fact with something like a boat motor it's probably =
at least 3 miles and in the winter sound reaaallly carries on the cold.
>    Think i can manage the soldering for cables, hopefully will be able to=
 come up with appropriate materials for diy the windscreens and seem to rem=
ember some sort of box array that helped the stereo.
>    Am open to whatever microphone setup will accomplish the clearest reco=
rding of what's envisioned with the 1K there is to spend.
>   Phantom power; the cabin (where it's warm) is probably at least a  hund=
red feet from the spot where i want to setup the mics for the spring record=
ing.  The wolf experiment can be accomplished from the same spot although m=
ight be handy to have something one could pack onto a snowmachine back into=
 the country and catch the ocassional odd sound. (wonder about the cold and=
 how batteries would handle temps going subz, but not too nuts after all i =
don't wander much when things get below 10 down.
>    What i'm hoping for is a super clean and clear capture of this
> place i find so acoustically amazing. Am hoping to get the distinct upriv=
er-downriver separation of the stereo sound.
>   Thanks alot for all input;
>         Russ
> --- In  "rock_scallop" <john_hartog@> wr=
ote:
> >
> > Hi Russ,
> >
> > While questions similar to yours have been asked and answered many time=
s on this forum, each case is unique. And as usual the more information you=
 can provide, the easier it will be for others to help you come up with the=
 ideal solution.
> >
> > You have stated your budget as $1000.  M10 ~$250; headphones ~$100; cab=
les ~$50; second-hand tripod ~$50; DIY array and windscreen system ~$50.  I=
f you will require phantom power then an additional ~$100 for a portable ph=
antom power supply and an adapter cable.
> >
> > That leaves $250 each for self powered or plug-in-power microphones, or=
 $200 each for phantom powered microphones, or $500 for a single-point ster=
eo mic.
> >
> > Sennheiser makes a lot of different microphones. Are there specific mod=
els you have in mind? Are you open to different brands?
> >
> > Can you solder to build your own cables, and DIY the windscreen and arr=
ay systems?
> >
> > It sounds like a special place you visit in Alaska. Can you further des=
cribe the sounds from this setting? What elements compose the perspective o=
f hearing "well over a mile downstream"?  How do you imagine these elements=
 will translate to your stereo playback system?
> >
> >
> > John Hartog
> > rockscallop.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In  "Russ C" <russcline1097@> wrot=
e:
> > >
> > >  Hi All:
> > > This has probably already been answered some place;
> > > Am wanting a pcm m10 setup to record in stereo this really stunning s=
oundscape in Alaska.  Where i'm at on this ridge one can hear well over a m=
ile down river and almost that much up(when the wind lays down)
> > > Am wanting to make a soundscape of the river sounds on just such quie=
t opportunities; Got about a thousand to spend.  Can i get it done with Sen=
nheiser microphones at this price range, what sort of power supply, where d=
o i look for cables, and what else will be needed.
> > >   Thanks for answering such a newbie question;
> > >      Russ
> > >
> >
>











"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.



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