Nice! You guys are fast! hahaha. Love all the info. I realize that questi=
ons like this are not easily answered (every location has a different ideal=
solution) and definitely appreciate the thoughtful responses.
Regarding weight concerns on this trip, I've definitely given it a lot of t=
hought but based on past experience I'm going a bit heavy on this one (on t=
he plus side, I've essentially upgraded all my backpacking gear over the ye=
ars to ultra-light standard, so I'm not crushing my knees quite as bad any =
longer). The main reasons for the 302 and 744 are 192kHZ capabilites, ease=
of use, and timecode (there will be some sync sound on this trip). The 19=
2 issue is probably a debate for another time, but I'm never unhappy with h=
aving the extra information when I get back and go process heavy on some of=
the material (think eerie processed ambiance and anything involving Serrat=
o Pitch and Time). The 302 is unfortunate, but I get get way too much hiss=
if I'm cranking the volume just straight through the 744, and the gain con=
trol is not nearly fine enough for minor mix moves.
The Schoeps suggestion does not fall on deaf ears. I'd REALLY like to have=
that setup, but don't have quite enough cash to make that investment just =
yet (the ball gag setup they have on their site is truly a thing of beauty)=
.
The mkh8000 series is one that I also researched a bit. I heard some nice=
8020 spaced omni stuff, but the guy was using a Jecklin disk and that is d=
efinitely out of the question for me, I'll never be able to walk again if m=
y pack is 60lbs for 4 weeks. That said, the other thing I noticed about th=
e recording was that while it was an exceptionally good sounding recording,=
I felt as though it sounded a bit washed out in terms of channel separatio=
n (it all felt as though it was right in front and married, without much de=
pth distance wise). I really like the spacial quality that you get from th=
e MS setup, where you can play with the elements a bit more and get a more =
focused spacing if you like. I'm kind of tempted to get an 8040 matched pa=
ir and put it into a ball gag, but wouldn't that essentially be the same as=
the 416's?
The mkh 30 and 8040 setup sounds pretty ideal! Do either of you have any s=
amples of that posted online, or possibly able to send a clip? I really li=
ke the idea of the MS setup so that I more control over the imaging in post=
. I'm also assuming that most of the material I get will be from a distant=
perspective, so any added reach from a cardioid is looking essential.
Have you guys run into any humidity issues with the 8000 series? I'm headi=
ng to Guatemala for a gig when I get back from this hike and this purchase =
is something I'm definitely bring, so ideally it will work in various condi=
tions. Thanks again to all of you for the incredibly fast responses!
Durand
--- In Jeremiah Moore <> wrote:
>
> If you can bear dropping down to two mic pres, leaving the 302 home
> will save you a lot of weight and power management.
>
> Yes, the 416 is noisy in a nature scenario. Wonderful beast, but a bit n=
oisy.
>
> My travel rig now consists of 702T, MKH-8040/MKH-30 pair in a Windpac
> (rycote stereo is better but large and fragile.) The 8040 is so short
> I have to insert an XLR barrel to get it to line up against the 30
> properly in the Windpac.
>
> It's a nice satisfying rig for ambience and basic SFX.
>
> If you want to record spot FX at a distance, you'll need a quiet
> shotgun or consider a dish. Try to borrow a dish to experiment with
> if you haven't; they're different, and interesting.
>
> On the other hand, a spaced omni pair is heavenly for ambience and
> plays nicely into Dolby Surround etc.
>
> A friend travels with 788, pair of MKH-20s, MKH-70 and MKH-800. A
> pair of tripods and a pair of Sennheiser blimps. With that, he's
> pretty much covered.
>
> No easy answers. ;)
>
> -jeremiah
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Daan Hendriks <> wrote:
> > Howdy!
> >
> > I'm not a field recording expert or guru in any sort of way, but I am
> > surprised you say that the 416's are too noisy?
> > When recording low volume sounds, I think it's important to keep in min=
d
> > that they should be auditioned at a similarly low volume as well. Noise
> > should be much less of a problem in that case, especially when recorded=
with
> > mics that have such a low self noise such as the 416s. I believe the ma=
ntra
> > of nature recordists is everything below 16 dBA self noise is suitable =
for
> > nature recording, and your 416s are at about 12dBA i think?
> >
> > As for MS, you could pretty much get a MKH30 side and have one of your =
416s
> > and the mid. It will sound great, although you will be confined to abou=
t 90
> > degrees width of 'proper' stereo image due to the polar pattern tightne=
ss of
> > the 416. If you have some cash lying about, I would get a MKH 8040 as y=
our
> > mid mic together with a MKH 30. Then you can simply make beautiful
> > recordings that have a fantastic stereo representation, and low noise a=
s
> > well - but not lower than what you are already used to (unless your 416=
s are
> > broken, but that seems unlikely).
> >
> > If you want extreme portability and have plenty of money, maybe get a
> > Schoeps MS, as they're so damn small... you could get one of those baby
> > ballgags wind shields then. Although I've heard from various corners th=
at
> > Schoeps can be troublesome when it comes to humidity (but have similarl=
y
> > heard the exact opposite as well, so that seems a bit of an open debate=
).
> >
> > Alternatively, the most simple and portable solution would be to get a =
Sony
> > D50 I suppose!
> >
> > Hope it helps a bit,
> > Daan
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:08 PM, zen_leprechaun
> > <>wrote:
> >
> >> **
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> I'm new to this group and excited to have been accepted. I joined beca=
use
> >> I'm having difficulty finding the answer to my question elsewhere and =
all
> >> posts seem to lead back to this group. I'm headed out next month to hi=
ke the
> >> John Muir Trail in central California (from Yosemite to Mt. Whitney). =
I am a
> >> location sound mixer and sound effects editor and am looking to gather=
some
> >> new material while I'm on this hike. I'm looking for an answer as to w=
hat
> >> people think might be the best solution for gathering stereo recording=
s on
> >> the trail.
> >>
> >> My current location rig (that I take backpacking as well) includes a S=
ound
> >> Devices 302 mixer, 744t recorder, 2 Sennheiser 416's, stereo mount, an=
d an
> >> Aquarian Audio hydrophone (can be cool as a contact mic every once in =
a
> >> while).
> >>
> >> I love my 416's but the self noise gets to be really problematic when =
the
> >> element I'm trying to record is low (which unfortunately kills a lot o=
f what
> >> would otherwise be nice bird bg's, etc.). This also leads to excessive=
ly
> >> EQ'ing or denoising the end product, when the recording is low, and it
> >> really affects the overall depth of the recording in a negative way. I=
've
> >> been looking into an MS setup, but am curious what people would recomm=
end
> >> for this? On the trail I'm hoping for a generally dry experience (will=
of
> >> course prep for water as needed) but I'm trying to take that into
> >> consideration for which mics are the best candidate. I've also looked =
into
> >> the Telinga parabolic setups (the DATmic Twin Science looked particula=
rly
> >> intriguing) and am curious if anyone has used those before?
> >>
> >> Any advice on this dilemma would be greatly appreciated! I look forwar=
d to
> >> sharing some recordings when I get back, and hopefully they'll be even
> >> better after receiving advice from the experts here in the nature reco=
rding
> >> niche. Thank you for reading this post, and in advance for any advice =
given.
> >>
> >> Durand Trench
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Daan Hendriks - Audiomotif
> >
> > Sound Design | Music Production | Audio Editing
> > http://www.daanhendriks.co.uk
> > <http://www.audiomotif.co.uk/>
> > http://www.audiomotif.co.uk
> > +44(0)7842917821
> > skype: humanworkshop
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Kraus=
e.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> jeremiah moore | SOUND |
> http://www.jeremiahmoore.com/
>
--- In Jeremiah Moore <> wrote:
>
> If you can bear dropping down to two mic pres, leaving the 302 home
> will save you a lot of weight and power management.
>
> Yes, the 416 is noisy in a nature scenario. Wonderful beast, but a bit n=
oisy.
>
> My travel rig now consists of 702T, MKH-8040/MKH-30 pair in a Windpac
> (rycote stereo is better but large and fragile.) The 8040 is so short
> I have to insert an XLR barrel to get it to line up against the 30
> properly in the Windpac.
>
> It's a nice satisfying rig for ambience and basic SFX.
>
> If you want to record spot FX at a distance, you'll need a quiet
> shotgun or consider a dish. Try to borrow a dish to experiment with
> if you haven't; they're different, and interesting.
>
> On the other hand, a spaced omni pair is heavenly for ambience and
> plays nicely into Dolby Surround etc.
>
> A friend travels with 788, pair of MKH-20s, MKH-70 and MKH-800. A
> pair of tripods and a pair of Sennheiser blimps. With that, he's
> pretty much covered.
>
> No easy answers. ;)
>
> -jeremiah
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Daan Hendriks <> wrote:
> > Howdy!
> >
> > I'm not a field recording expert or guru in any sort of way, but I am
> > surprised you say that the 416's are too noisy?
> > When recording low volume sounds, I think it's important to keep in min=
d
> > that they should be auditioned at a similarly low volume as well. Noise
> > should be much less of a problem in that case, especially when recorded=
with
> > mics that have such a low self noise such as the 416s. I believe the ma=
ntra
> > of nature recordists is everything below 16 dBA self noise is suitable =
for
> > nature recording, and your 416s are at about 12dBA i think?
> >
> > As for MS, you could pretty much get a MKH30 side and have one of your =
416s
> > and the mid. It will sound great, although you will be confined to abou=
t 90
> > degrees width of 'proper' stereo image due to the polar pattern tightne=
ss of
> > the 416. If you have some cash lying about, I would get a MKH 8040 as y=
our
> > mid mic together with a MKH 30. Then you can simply make beautiful
> > recordings that have a fantastic stereo representation, and low noise a=
s
> > well - but not lower than what you are already used to (unless your 416=
s are
> > broken, but that seems unlikely).
> >
> > If you want extreme portability and have plenty of money, maybe get a
> > Schoeps MS, as they're so damn small... you could get one of those baby
> > ballgags wind shields then. Although I've heard from various corners th=
at
> > Schoeps can be troublesome when it comes to humidity (but have similarl=
y
> > heard the exact opposite as well, so that seems a bit of an open debate=
).
> >
> > Alternatively, the most simple and portable solution would be to get a =
Sony
> > D50 I suppose!
> >
> > Hope it helps a bit,
> > Daan
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:08 PM, zen_leprechaun
> > <>wrote:
> >
> >> **
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> I'm new to this group and excited to have been accepted. I joined beca=
use
> >> I'm having difficulty finding the answer to my question elsewhere and =
all
> >> posts seem to lead back to this group. I'm headed out next month to hi=
ke the
> >> John Muir Trail in central California (from Yosemite to Mt. Whitney). =
I am a
> >> location sound mixer and sound effects editor and am looking to gather=
some
> >> new material while I'm on this hike. I'm looking for an answer as to w=
hat
> >> people think might be the best solution for gathering stereo recording=
s on
> >> the trail.
> >>
> >> My current location rig (that I take backpacking as well) includes a S=
ound
> >> Devices 302 mixer, 744t recorder, 2 Sennheiser 416's, stereo mount, an=
d an
> >> Aquarian Audio hydrophone (can be cool as a contact mic every once in =
a
> >> while).
> >>
> >> I love my 416's but the self noise gets to be really problematic when =
the
> >> element I'm trying to record is low (which unfortunately kills a lot o=
f what
> >> would otherwise be nice bird bg's, etc.). This also leads to excessive=
ly
> >> EQ'ing or denoising the end product, when the recording is low, and it
> >> really affects the overall depth of the recording in a negative way. I=
've
> >> been looking into an MS setup, but am curious what people would recomm=
end
> >> for this? On the trail I'm hoping for a generally dry experience (will=
of
> >> course prep for water as needed) but I'm trying to take that into
> >> consideration for which mics are the best candidate. I've also looked =
into
> >> the Telinga parabolic setups (the DATmic Twin Science looked particula=
rly
> >> intriguing) and am curious if anyone has used those before?
> >>
> >> Any advice on this dilemma would be greatly appreciated! I look forwar=
d to
> >> sharing some recordings when I get back, and hopefully they'll be even
> >> better after receiving advice from the experts here in the nature reco=
rding
> >> niche. Thank you for reading this post, and in advance for any advice =
given.
> >>
> >> Durand Trench
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Daan Hendriks - Audiomotif
> >
> > Sound Design | Music Production | Audio Editing
> > http://www.daanhendriks.co.uk
> > <http://www.audiomotif.co.uk/>
> > http://www.audiomotif.co.uk
> > +44(0)7842917821
> > skype: humanworkshop
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Kraus=
e.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> jeremiah moore | SOUND |
> http://www.jeremiahmoore.com/
>
|