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Re: Sennheiser 80x0 series. was Infrasound microphone

Subject: Re: Sennheiser 80x0 series. was Infrasound microphone
From: "James Shatto" wwwshadow7
Date: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:16 pm ((PDT))
> --- On Fri, 7/30/10, Scott Fraser <> wrote:
>
> From: Scott Fraser <>
> Subject: [Nature Recordists] Re: Sennheiser 80x0 series. was Infrasound >=
 microphone
> To: 
> Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 9:51 AM
>
> > Most of what I've heard, is that if it wasn't for the
> > extended low end of the 80x0 series, that they would
> > RATHER use some OTHER rather specific mic(s). Not to
> > say that they aren't amazing mics and a value at their
> > price points. Hence why I want some. But I've seen many
> > comments that favor the older MKH20 / MKH40 over their
> > modern MKH8020 and MKH8040 counterparts. And other mics
> > that are on par with the new kids on the block.
>
>
> That is what you get with the Internet; opinions that
> cover the entire spectrum of thought & experience, and
> like movie or book reviews you really need to know
> something of the background of the opinion giver to know
> if your response might be similar or opposite. I
> frequently read online reviews of mics, the conclusions
> of which I can dismiss,=A0 knowing that the reviewer works
> exclusively with rock bands & has little involvement with
> traditional acoustic instruments. My personal experience,
> & that of several classical music engineer colleagues who
> I work with closely, is that the 8040 has a degree of
> naturalness,=A0 realism, resolution & presence at distance
> which is unmatched by others, including DPA 400x's
> & Schoeps CMC5/MK2's at a lesser distance, in the context
> of chamber music, orchestral music & soprano (Dawn Upshaw)
> with piano accompaniment. I have yet to hear a negative=A0
> response from anybody who has used these mics, but I also
> haven't sought opinions through the usual Internet sources,
> having had the opportunity for personal hands-on use of the
> 8040's. I have not used the 80x0 for nature recording, so
> that's untried, but generally I find the requirements for
> accurate, realistic portrayal of musical instruments in
> acoustic spaces exceeds the demands for a similar sense
> of emplacement within a nature setting.
>
>
>
> Scott Fraser


Well, if you qualify the needs with "at a distance", yeah you would be hard=
 pressed to do better.  My needs are more geared toward marching bands reco=
rded from stadium seating.  So "at a distance" is one of my needs.  Not tec=
hnically marching band, but close enough.  The bonus being that all of my g=
ear is battery powered and transportable, one person, one trip.  Which lend=
s itself to nature recording.  And recording while on the move in general.

My current mics are Avenson STO-2's.  I feel a bit lucky having stumbled up=
on these from early on.  I saw them for sale used.  Couldn't find a sample =
of them in use that I didn't like.  And took the plunge.  Unfortunately in =
use, they tend to be a little light on the low end.  All those Tuba players=
 sound like half as many as they should.  And the noise floor is pretty not=
iceable.  Otherwise great mics.  And very forgiving.

I've tried swapping the STO-2's for SM81's, and for the problems those impr=
oved upon (low end, noise floor).  They introduced many other problems.  Ha=
ndling noise, wind noise, and a general girth that doesn't lend itself very=
 well to my pursuits.  Pretty awesome in controlled environments (indoors, =
with a small group, at a distance, and no one in the audience), but not wha=
t I was (and am still) needing.  And the directionality of the 81's is pret=
ty extreme for my uses.  Often called cardioid, but you'd need at least 4 o=
f them to cover a 180 degree spread IMO.  Anything but natural sounding out=
doors.  If you or the subject moves.

So I guess I'm on the prowl for better.  Everything at the price point of t=
he STO-2's (~$500-ish) seem to be a side step at best and not really worth =
the effort.  The Crown Sass-P MK II being one of the shining stars that MIG=
HT be a step up.  Rode NT4 or a pair of NT5's, maybe.  Doubling that price =
point yields some options, but a lot of them are not suited for my use give=
n the potential for high SPL depending on how close or far I am from a grou=
p.  All stadiums are not created equal.  Beyer Dynamic MC910s are interesti=
ng, but relatively low SPL ratings for said usage.  If I double that price =
point twice (x4 and probably not going to happen anytime soon).  That puts =
me in range of the MKH option(s).  But I'm torn as to whether I can do bett=
er with say EW QTC-50mp's, or save a few bucks and settle on some Kel HM7u'=
s.  So many good mics, not many suited for this particular purpose.  I want=
 to be able to record that 300 piece group, or the crickets in my
 yard.  Which is a pretty tall order when it comes to the microphone select=
ion.

I still favor the 80x0 mics, but not because of their sound.  The other spe=
cs, notably operational temperatures, lend those mics to be better suited t=
o my uses.  Audio Technica mics seem to all rate to 110F, which for Texas a=
nd outdoors could be a COLD day.  And it's always hotter in the car, so if =
you're inside having a meal, what's that doing to your mics?  200 miles dow=
n, 200 more to go.  So many good mics, and just not that many that are suit=
ed for the no hassle, all weather, outdoorsy types.  Living near Austin whe=
re the wind can turn a tripod into a kite probably doesn't help much either=
.  Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread or write a book.  It's just ex=
tremely frustrating not being able to get there from here for < $10K (not i=
ncluding video).

Per the original thread, that low end, even for the sub 20Hz range is hard =
to come by.  If you record a church organ and other things, it becomes more=
 evident that something is missing or just not quite right.

Per this list, I'm actually more interested in the weather proofing contrap=
tions / methods ya'all have come up with.  I want to be able to record rain=
 or shine, and still get equal results with basically the same rigging for =
both.  Another tall order apparently.  Although the hydrophone discussion i=
s enlightening.

Per my rig, I've set limits.  Two channels of audio.  One channel of video.=
  One person, one trip.  Little more than a glorified soccer mom for all in=
tents.  But I want it all to be on par with the quality you see on what pas=
ses for TV these days.  And for less than the costs of my automobile.  And =
I drive a relatively cheap car, which I bought new, but still.  And that in=
cludes the video half which would be 2/3's the total (in theory).

- James










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