I was surprised there wasn't more difference
between the mics and the arrays. I don't have a
sense of what the space sounded like, so its
challenging for me to reach a solid opinion from
the comparison. Lots of lower mid-range
saturation in the test condition which is
demanding on the rigs. Maybe too demanding?
Lately, I've been doing comparisons in 2-3
setting to see if patterns emerge. The amount of
similarity in this comparison seems to beg for
this.
Mike, I see you have some custom clip-ons that
you can make-up for folks
http://pipmics.com/store/PIPMICS_Store.html
How about a shoot out of clip ons, in free air
and in the stereo array of your choice?
My main hesitation is the cost for small electret
mics. I'm guessing the Telingas are in 15-16dB(A)
self-noise range. Good sensitivity. Low noise
enough that I think the input noise of the LS-10
cripple's the Telingas slightly in Mike's test.
That is 5-6dB(A) better than WL183's but around
the same price as 2 -AT4022's.
I realize that the clip-ons have much
sought-after portability. If they came with
something new like a unique stereo array I could
set-up, the price would be more attractive to me.
I have a portable rig with small 14 dB(A)
self-noise mics into a Zoom H2 (via external
pre), but recording with shock mounts, good wind
protection etc and 7-10 dB(A) mics is in a
different league. I've been mixing field
recordings and the self-noise differences are
quite audible with natural space daytime ambience
when they're placed in the same program. Rob D.
=3D =3D =3D
At 11:56 AM +0000 4/28/10, Mike Rooke wrote:
> I liked the SASS rig the most. The teliga omnis
>performance is really very good considering the
>size 10mm, this may take some getting used to,
>its like having a pair of large diaphragm
>condensers in your pocket. Quite a disruptive
>product if you think of the low noise,
>sensitivity and cost, no need for xlr/phantom
>power, pocket recorder 3.5mm plug and go... I
>hope they are waterproof?
>
>-Mike.
>pipmics.com
>
>--- In
><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>=
m,
>"Mike" <> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Please pardon for the long post.
>>
>> Two weekends ago I attended the naturesound recording workshop in
>> Seattle. We took the opportunity to try the new Telinga Clip-Ons with a
>> few different recorders and also to do an interesting simultaneous
>> recording with three different rigs including the new Telingas+LS-10. A
>> number of folks jumped in to help with gear and execution of the tests.
>> It was a great workshop this year with a wonderful bunch of enthusiasti=
c
>> participants.
>>
>> Experimenting with a few different PIP recorders and the Telinga Clip-O=
n
>> mics:
>>
>> The Telingas were strapped to a tree at about 5' off the ground.
>> They were not moved between these takes. We recorded a reference sound
>> using Martyn's iPhone. I then used those reference recordings to
>> normalize the recordings as well as I could. That worked fairly well
>> given the lack of precision we were dealing with. Several lessons
>> learned should I attempt this sort of test again in the future.
>>
>> These recordings were all done at 44.1 kHz/24-bit. We had the Olympus
>> LS10 and LS11 and a Sony PCM-D50 on hand. They are encoded to 192 kbps
>> MP3 using Sound Forge 8. PIP was provided by the recorders. We had awfu=
l
>> jet and prop plane noise the entire time. In particular, the LS11
>> recording has a lot of jet rumble throughout most of the sample. No
>> filtering (other than the intrinsic response of the mics/recorders) was
>> applied whatsoever for this comparison. The recordings are cropped to
>> remove some fidgeting but contain some noise from us rustling around.
>>
>> I also made a recording with the Telingas powered by a DIY PIP circuit
>> (which may not be providing enough current) and have included that as
>> well. There is no reference level for that recording but I attempted to
> > get the gain close to match the other recordings.
>>
>> Here is the Olympus LS10:
>>
>><http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/LS100129_edit_LS10_comp1_gai=
>http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/LS100129_edit_LS10_comp1_gai\
>> nmatched.mp3
>>
>><<http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/LS100129_edit_LS10_comp1_ga=
>http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/LS100129_edit_LS10_comp1_ga\
>> inmatched.mp3>
>>
>> Olympus LS11:
>>
>><http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/LS110052_edit_LS11_comp1_gai=
>http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/LS110052_edit_LS11_comp1_gai\
>> nmatched.mp3
>>
>><<http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/LS110052_edit_LS11_comp1_ga=
>http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/LS110052_edit_LS11_comp1_ga\
>> inmatched.mp3>
>>
>> Sony PCM-D50:
>>
>><http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/100411_02_edit_D50_comp1_gai=
>http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/100411_02_edit_D50_comp1_gai\
>> nmatched.mp3
>>
>><<http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/100411_02_edit_D50_comp1_ga=
>http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/100411_02_edit_D50_comp1_ga\
>> inmatched.mp3>
>>
>> We did a second recording with the D50 as well. I think the gain was
>> unchanged:
>>
>><http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/100411_04_edit_D50_comp2_gai=
>http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/100411_04_edit_D50_comp2_gai\
>> nmatched.mp3
>>
>><<http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/100411_04_edit_D50_comp2_ga=
>http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/100411_04_edit_D50_comp2_ga\
>> inmatched.mp3>
>>
>> Finally, here is a quick recording with the Telingas powered by a
>> battery box and connected to an SD 722 (again =96 this was not made at
>> the same reference level but I attempted to get things in the ballpark)=
:
>>
>>
>><http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/T217_edit+20dB.mp3>http://mi=
kewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/T217_edit+20dB.mp3
>>
>><<http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/T217_edit+20dB.mp3>http://m=
ikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/T217_edit+20dB.mp3>
>>
>> Observations:
>>
>> LS10: Despite my attempts at gain matching I think that the gain is
>> higher relative to the LS11 and D50 recordings so it is tough to make a
>> fair comparison. Significant audible "hiss."
>>
>> LS11: Some audible "hiss."
>>
>> Sony PCM-D50: Both clips sound really good to me. Still some audible
>> "hiss" but more quiet than the LS11.
>>
>> SD 722 with DIY PIP circuit: Sounds quite different to me. I'm
>> hearing quite deep into the soundscape. The hiss is much lower but it i=
s
>> really important to remember that this recording is not normalized like
>> the other. I made my best attempt to get the overall gain close to the
>> other recordings.
>>
>> Simultaneous recording with 3 different rigs:
>>
>> We recorded simultaneously on three rigs at Cougar Mountain. I have
>> attempted to level match these clips by ear. These recordings were all
>> done at 44.1 kHz/24-bit. They are encoded to 192 kbps MP3 using Sound
>> Forge 8. The files are long. No filtering (other than the intrinsic
>> response of the mics/recorders) was applied whatsoever for this
>> comparison.
>>
>> SASS mic w/MKH20's -> SD 722:
>>
>><http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/SASS_edit1.mp3>http://mikewa=
llmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/SASS_edit1.mp3
>>
>><<http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/SASS_edit1.mp3>http://mikew=
allmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/SASS_edit1.mp3>
>>
>> M-S mic w/MKH 30/40 -> SD 722:
>>
>><http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/MKH_M-S_edit1.mp3>http://mik=
ewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/MKH_M-S_edit1.mp3
>>
>><<http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/MKH_M-S_edit1.mp3>http://mi=
kewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/MKH_M-S_edit1.mp3>
>>
>> Telinga Clip-Ons attached to a tree about 5' off the ground ->
>> Olympus LS 10:
>>
>><http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/Telinga+LS10_edit1.mp3>http:=
//mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/Telinga+LS10_edit1.mp3
>>
>><<http://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/Telinga+LS10_edit1.mp3>http=
://mikewallmusic.com/MKHandTelingaOmnis/Telinga+LS10_edit1.mp3>
>>
>> Rob Danielson was kind enough to create the following blind test using
>> excerpts from these simultaneous recordings. I find it fascinating:
> >
>>
>><http://tinyurl.com/y4zhvyn>http://tinyurl.com/y4zhvyn
>><<http://tinyurl.com/y4zhvyn>http://tinyurl.com/y4zhvyn>
>>download (19mb
>> QuickTime movie)
>>
>> I should mention that I am not an expert on PIP issues and powering
>> these types of mics. There is some question about the appropriateness o=
f
>> my DIY circuit the PIP capability of the Sony PCM-D50 with these mics
>> (headroom may be limited, etc). For what it's worth the mics sound
>> great to me in both of those cases (really all of the cases above) and
>> given the recording environment.
>>
>> I apologize in advance for slow and intermittent replies! I'm in
>> school right now and am heads-down.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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