Thanks for the iXML link Paul. I looked at Sound Devices implementation;
it is geared for video/film production. Like you said, much of the data
that nature recordists would want to record would be crammed into the
notes section. I believe you can edit the metadata using a external
keyboard that hooks up to the recorder, but carrying an extra device
around and editing this way doesn't interest me very much. Last night I
tried SD's free software Wave Agent 1.1. Among other things, it allows
one to easily edit the metadata from a PC. This is cool, but again most
relevant information would be in the notes section. I guess this is
really the only option. Even if you completely customized the iXML tags
to include things like biophony, geophony, etc, which seems very
possible, and made a program to write and read that data, I don't think
that any other program, such as an audio editor, would be able to read
it (unless it was in the notes section :).
Soundminer looks interesting, but it is also very expensive. Also, from
looking at the screenshot the metadata options seem to be from pull down
options, and it is not clear to me what those options are, or if they
are customizable.
I haven't been able to figure out how to edit metadata on Wave Editor.
Sound Forge 10 (my favorite editor) has introduced extensive Metadating
editing capabilities with similar categories to SD.
All in all I think embedded metadata is not to serve as the only record,
but a copy of the record, which at the very least points to the entry
within the database.
-Charles
On 4/21/10 4:30 PM, Rob Danielson wrote:
>
> Hi Wil-
> It is fun to imagine features like the automatic tags we are getting
> used to being expanded-upon. I'm trying to get a handle on the the
> programming that has to be done in reverse. The "consolidation" app
> (for logging/editng/mxing/data-exporting) has to meet the database's
> needs and then the "consolidation" app can be optimized to handle
> b-wavs, other formats and incorporating new data.
>
> Others on this list know a lot about metadata and programming. Reaper
> isn't too shoddy at using b-wavs right now. I think a good number of
> hardware manufacturers and software programmers are ignoring
> industry-specified chunk designations. No matter, we'll still have
> to accommodate exceptions for people to be happy. At this stage, I'm
> assuming that converting/editing apps will be needed to get some
> files ready for the "consolidation" app and that they don't have to
> be expensive. Rob D.
>
> At 12:55 PM -0400 4/21/10, Wil Hershberger wrote:
> >
> >Yes, Rob, that makes perfect sense. It would be great to have an app that
> >would work something like BreezeBrowsers downloader pro and would be
> cross
> >platform. There are a few applications that will allow for metadata
> editing
> >but they are hugely expensive.
> >
> >Most of the recorders are saving Broadcast wav files. With this set
> >structure there certainly must be a way to access all of the bext
> chunk data
> >slots in an easy and inexpensive way.
> >
> >Wil Hershberger
> ><<http://www.natureimagesandsounds.com/
> <http://www.natureimagesandsounds.com/>>http://www.natureimagesandsounds.com/
> <http://www.natureimagesandsounds.com/>>
> >Nature Images and Sounds, LLC
> >Hedgesville, WV
> ><<http://www.songsofinsects.com/
> <http://www.songsofinsects.com/>>http://www.songsofinsects.com/
> <http://www.songsofinsects.com/>> The
> >Songs of Insects
> ><<http://cricketman.blogspot.com/
> <http://cricketman.blogspot.com/>>http://cricketman.blogspot.com/
> <http://cricketman.blogspot.com/>> My Blog
> >
> >From:
> ><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>
> <naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>
> >[mailto:<naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> <naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>]
> >On Behalf Of Rob Danielson
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:37 AM
> >To:
> ><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>
> <naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] from metadata to archiving (was Some
> >prescient words from Murray Schafer
> >
> >At 5:21 PM +1000 4/21/10, Paul Jacobson wrote:
> >>
> >>On 21/04/2010, at 10:34 AM, Dan Dugan wrote:
> >>
> >>> Cameras are leading the way with metadata. A photo file from my
> >>>Canon Digital Rebel comes with at least 18 items of metadata
> >>>embedded--not only date and time, but lens type, exposure values,
> >>>etc. My iPhone photos come with GPS coordinates. Unfortunately,
> >>>there is less demand (no mass market?) for audio recorders
> >>>including metadata.
> >>
> >>Hi Dan,
> >>
> >>iXML looks promising in this regard. see:
> >><<http://www.ixml.info/
> <http://www.ixml.info/>>http://www.ixml.info/
> <http://www.ixml.info/>><http://www.ixml.info/
> <http://www.ixml.info/>>http://www.ixml.info/ <http://www.ixml.info/>
> >>
> >>The "Notes" keyword allows free form text to be entered and is
> >>probably the most useful section for entering information about
> >>location, rig, etc. Sound Devices have support for this in v2.0+
> >>firmware.
> >>
> >>Support is becoming increasingly widespread and is slightly more
> >>extensive than the compatibility list would indicate. For example
> >>Soundminer and Wave Editor include iXML metadata editing
> >>capabilities and I noticed that the tascam HD-P82, and Sonosax
> >>recorders ( SX-R4 and MiniR82 ) include iXML metadata support. The
> >>hardware supporting iXML tends to confirm your observation that
> >>audio metadata is aimed squarely at the pro end of the market,
> >>rather than mass market.
> >>
> >>The GPS_COORDINATES custom keyword has been registered but
> >>unfortunately there is no indication of which developer intends to
> >>implement this.
> >>
> >>cheers
> >>Paul
> >>
> >
> >Hi Paul, Dan, Charles et al--
> >
> >I'm very interested in these issues.
> >
> >Prompted by the insights of Ian Rawes, who works at the British
> >Library Sound Archive, I'm imagining a software approach that would
> >effectively make a recordist into an "archivist" every time he/she
> >logs a recording (in recognition that there are many boxes of tapes,
> >discs and hard drives at museums and historical societies waiting for
> >archivists to dive into,..)
> >
> >Heres one, possible way to see the software as "auto-archiving:"
> >
> >Lets say we have a recorder that grabs GPS and time and sets aside
> >chunks for additional data. (Not essential, but the system would
> >accommodate this).
> >
> >Lets say there's a free or cheap, cross-platform sound editing/mixing
> >app** (not just logging or library app) that accepts
> >recorder-produced data and allows one to add notes, photos, sync'd
> >weather info, species and other key data AS ONE LOGS and creates
> >short audio excerpts. (One can use the same app to create rich
> >records from field recordings with out metadata initially).
> >
> >Lets say the same editor will export all of this app-consolidated
> >data in format "X." (Possibly, xml with links to the media and all
> >other indexed data).
> >
> >Next, one needs a free or very cheap cross-platform database
> >application to import data "X" and create RECORDS or pages that
> >display this info in an organized format with links to the media and
> >robust relational searching. It also enables one to update and
> >correct records and add more categories both temporarily and
> >permanently.
> >
> >It seems to me that if we work backwards from the Database, one can
> >make a powerful, personal library that one has the option to place
> >on-line and be linked with others of similar ilk. The same system
> >could retain/link commercial interests and/or non profit interests.
> >
> >**Reaper (cross-platform $50) will import metadata and allow one to
> >add notes and export excel compatible log sheets. One of the
> >Extension developers for Reaper lives here in Wisconsin, but he needs
> >to know what database the info is going into,..
> >
> >Obviously, I'm favoring a system that a beginning recordist can use
> >with little expense and with community support so the numbers of
> >users can grow and abilities maintained over time. Make sense to
> >anyone? Rob D.
> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
>
>
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