Klas-
Hmm. Certainly it could be useful for creative effect for loudspeaker
presentation. For headphone presentation I'm less sure - I think careful
listening would be in order if it's important to preserve the binaural
image. So it would have to be tried, and perhaps would work perfectly for
some material and not for others, or for some playback environments and som=
e
not.
It's certainly illuminating to listen to the correlated and uncorrelated
components of a stereo recording separately. For instance - it brings into
focus the difficulty of summing Binaural to mono:
My observation of my own pseudo-binaural sounds (recorded with head-mounted
Shure WL-183 omnis not placed just above the front of the pinnae, not in th=
e
ear canal) is that the Side channel contains a lot of information in the
Message: 1.
Subject: 5K to 6K range. When these sounds are summed to mono, the overall
spectrum shifts, dropping a lot of mid-frequency detail.
-jeremiah
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 4:42 AM, Klas Strandberg <> wrote=
:
>
>
> jeremiah,
>
> Do you think it would be productive to encode binaural sound into MS
> and do the kind of manipulations you describe?
> Then back again?
>
> Klas.
>
>
> At 00:44 2009-12-16, you wrote:
> >regarding MS processing:
> >
> >Izotope's Ozone mastering plug-in contains internal MS dematrix/matrix, =
so
> >you can EQ mid and side separately, a-la Rob's technique.
> >
> >I've been using it here for some other tasks. It's a powerful EQ with bo=
th
> >FIR and "normal" modes, and a matching function which builds a FIR filte=
r
> to
> >match one sound's spectrum to another's. Also includes a limiter,
> >compressor, and multiband dynamics all in the same plugin instance.
> >
> >Downsides: relative to other EQs it's processor hungry (I can run maybe
> two
> >instances on my dual-2ghz mac G5, many more on an Intel mac). Also the
> >interface in general is somewhat complex, especially the presets load/sa=
ve
> >area. To be expected with so many features I suppose.
> >
> >It's US$200 which for a professional plug-in is quite reasonable, though
> >it's obviously MUCH more than using the free Soundhack MS plugs.
> >
> >Anyway, it's been a valuable addition here and for anyone heavily into M=
S
> >processing it may be worth a look.
> >
> >(no affiliation with izotope - just an end user.)
> >
> >-jeremiah
> >
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Rob Danielson <<type%40uwm=
.edu>>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 4:45 PM +0100 12/15/09, Klas Strandberg wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >The hole is a consequence of the two mikes, boosting HF sideways and
> > > >can only (...?) be heard (in a bothersome
> > > >way..?) when you record awidespread "sparkle all
> > > >around" as when the grain snow hit the frozen
> > > >leaves in this almost panorama way.
> > > >
> > > >A more "common" stereo picture is at the the ending of
> > > ><http://www.telinga.com/gallery/tripple_birdfeed.mp3>
> > > http://www.telinga.com/gallery/tripple_birdfeed.mp3
> > > >where you don=B4t
> > > >clearly hear the hole, as there are no audible HF getting boosted
> > > >from the sides. Birds are flying between the feeder and a tree at th=
e
> > > >left, and I don't hear any bothersome change of wing sounds over the
> area.
> > > >I have tried out a prototype where the mic capsules point forward,
> > > >not to "shade" themselves, but then I loose some of the "crispiness"
> > > >that I like and that so easily can be filtered, then also reducing
> > > >some of the mic self noise.
> > >
> > > Of course, all stereo arrays have draw-backs and
> > > one's preference can depend on what one considers
> > > to be more natural, more striking, more accurate,
> > > etc.
> > >
> > > Some listeners prefer the additional HF contrast
> > > between the LEFT and RIGHT speakers because it
> > > gives a sense that the sound horizon has more
> > > spread. However, even omni mic capsules are
> > > slightly treble-centric-- the "center" of their
> > > polar pattern is more sensitive to HF than the
> > > sides (usually). When the mic capsules are
> > > directed out or (opposing) towards the sides, the
> > > LEFT speaker and RIGHT speaker contrast is
> > > heightened. In directing both capsules straight
> > > forward, (oriented perpendicular to a flat
> > > boundary or tangential to a spherical or curved
> > > one), the center of the field is rendered with
> > > more HF emphasis. Moving the capsule diaphragm
> > > out of the pressure zone tends to simplify the
> > > "cues" as the capsule is no longer in the
> > > "pressure zone" that comes with mounting the
> > > capsule with the diaphragm flush to the boundary.
> > > There are many opinions about the plusses and
> > > minus's of capsule orientation. I personally
> > > feel, given the effects of the options, that
> > > front-facing capsule orientation is more
> > > "natural" in that it establishes a "front stage"
> > > where sounds become symmetrically darker as they
> > > move towards the sides. The head-spacing/timing
> > > differences are preserved and there is plenty of
> > > LEFT - RIGHT contrast and horizontal spread. (One
> > > stereo array with flush-mounted capsules that
> > > seems to be an exception is the SASS. I've never
> > > been able to do side-by side comparisons with
> > > one.)
> > >
> > > Creating a HF boost in the center of the stereo
> > > field has other advantages. Traditional EQ
> > > affects center and side tonality _at the same
> > > time_. If one uses standard parametric EQ to
> > > reduce extra crispness at 4K Hz from hard left
> > > and hard right, the crispness/tonality of the
> > > center is also lessened. I think better overall
> > > side-to-center tonal balance after EQ can be
> > > achieved with forward-facing capsule orientation.
> > >
> > >
> > > >If "State of the Art" measurements + a good middle is required, only
> > > >the best M/S system will do and then we enter into another world, yo=
u
> > > know.
> > > >Still, I must say, - I have heard professional M/S recordings which
> > > >have been less "alive" than from binaural and semi-binaural set-up's=
,
> > > >some M/S has even been "flat".
> > >
> > > Some listeners prefer a very EVEN stereo field
> > > where the sounds are more closely positioned
> > > across the middle. Coincident stereo arrays like
> > > X-Y and M-S can do this (though the later needs
> > > to be carefully adjusted). These arrays tend* to
> > > have less left-right contrast and with the X-Y
> > > array, sounds can feel bunched together in the
> > > center. With M-S and X-Y there is no timing
> > > difference analogous to the spread of the ears
> > > and no baffle or boundary cues produced as with
> > > our heads. *Note many recordists that use M-S
> > > rigs tend to lower the level of the center mic to
> > > create more left right contrast.
> > >
> > > There's another way, in post, to adjust the
> > > tonality of the Center and the Sides of the
> > > stereo field separately. It involves using "plug
> > > ins" in the mixing chain. We first discussed
> > > this technique in this list a year or so ago.
> > > Here's a screen shot of the chain I've been using:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/public/media/MixingChain_EQBetweenM-SPlu=
gs.jpg
> > >
> > > I've been mixing material generated by a number
> > > of stereo arrays over the past few weeks and
> > > sometime this technique works very well and other
> > > times not. I'm looking for patterns. Rob D.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Best wishes from Klas and a snowy Sweden.
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
>
> >----------------------------------------------------------
> >jeremiah moore | SOUND | <jmoore%40northstation.n=
et>
> >http://www.jeremiahmoore.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
>
> >
> >"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> >sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
> S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
> Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
> email: <telinga%40bahnhof.se>
> website: www.telinga.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
jeremiah moore | SOUND |
http://www.jeremiahmoore.com/
|