At 9:11 PM +0000 8/3/09, Max Catterwell wrote:
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>Hi Rob,
>Thank YOU for doing the tech bit! The 'movie' was very enlightening.
>It's certainly given me food for thought. I'm obviously disappointed
>in the lower gain of the FR2, and having read your comments about
>the lower-mid range noise issues and their impact upon spatial cue
>clarity, I may re-think my priorities.
>It will certainly be interesting if, as you suggest may happen,
>other recordists re-examine their work done with the FR2 and find
>vagaries that could relate to this experiment.
>But for now hmmm, let me think....... HD-P2 any advantage over FR2-LE?
The comparison tests people have done have been quite consistent with
the input measurements that Raimund, John, Richard and others have
done. If we take the "Measured Mic Input Noise" figures for the two
recorders from our RecorderList: http://tinyurl.com/l2a3bu
Tascam HD-P2 -127dBu (A-weighted)
Fostex FR2-LE -129dBu (A-weighted)
a difference this small would suggest very similar noise performance.
We don't have a listening test comparing these two, particular
recorders, but we do have one in which an HD-P2 fares pretty well
when compared to a SD 744T recorder: http://tinyurl.com/2ejuob Rob D.
>
>All the best
>Max
>
>> Hi Max--
>> Interesting test. Thanks for conducting it!
>>
>> As you and I have started discussing off-list, the most significant
>> difference between the two test recordings is a warm airyness (from
>> 200-2000Hz) that is in the FR2's recording that is not in the
>> FR2-LE's recording.
>>
>> To view the test movie in your web browser:
>><http://tinyurl.com/nbnvf6>http://tinyurl.com/nbnvf6 (1.5 mb)
>> to download <http://tinyurl.com/neea97>http://tinyurl.com/neea97
>>and view with QuickTime (1.5 mb)
>>
>> Audio Technica AT-3032 mics were used; max gain and no trim used in
>> both recorders. The FR2 sample comes first. Playback volume is
>> matched in post.
>>
>> (If anyone on PC has success viewing the downloaded movie with an
>> application other than QT, could you contact me off list?)
>>
>> As we are reasonably sure that the added sound is not
>> "environmental"-- that is-- NOT being created in the space by
>> something like air-handling equipment, then its likely to be FR2 pre
>> noise occurring low in the spectrum. The additional noise would be
>> consistent with John's input noise measurements-122 dBU (A) for the
>> FR2 and -129 dBu (A) for the Fr2-LE. Though noise this low into the
>> audio spectrum is fairly unusual and it is surprising to me that no
>> one has pointed it out in the FR2 before, we also observed a similar
>> problem with the pre in the Olympus LS-10.
>>
>> I bet we'll come across some evidence generated by other recordist
>> that will either make us 99% confident about this or we'll discover
>> some factors we overlooked. But, if the test and assessment _are_
>> on-target, and one is using the recorder under high gain situations
>> with the 3032 mics [or those with self-noise of around 14dB(A) or
>> lower], the FR2-LE's mic preamp should render considerably greater
>> clarity in the lower mid range. This part of the spectrum can play a
>> large role in creating important spatial cues in recordings where a
>> sense of "ambience" is desired.
>>
>> The noise in the highest octaves is so matched, audibly, that I
>> suspect we're hearing the self-noise of the AT-3032 mics. There could
>> be a tiny bit better HF response in the FR2-LE. The FR2 seems to have
>> about 6 dB less gain for recordists to work with.
>>
>> Quite often, recorder manufacturers claim they've made improvements
>> in noise performance in newer models but we have a hard time
>> confirming this in the field. In this case, even though Fostex didn't
>> seem to make such an announcement, its looking like there's a pretty
>> good chance they addressed some mic preamp noise issues with the FR2
>> when designing the FR2-LE. A beauty of a list like this is we're more
>> likely to hear about it if another recordist comes across additional
> > evidence.
>>
>> The test also points out that its probably safer to operate on DC
>> power for critical recordings rather than assume the AC power unit
>> won't contribute some noise.
>>
>> Rob D.
>>
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