Hi Lilly--
I don't think I'd bother with substituting a Sony D50 or Edirol R09
thinking a different recorder will get you the quality improvement
you are after. These recorders are similar enough and the LS-10
satisfies your low-profile needs. To improve on your recordings, I'd
focus on micing technique and lower noise mics and optimized stereo
arrays.
You do need to determine that your LS-10 is working correctly. Read
the owner's manual and make sure all of your settings are correct
(manual rec gain, no limiter, no low frequency cut-off). Make some
test recordings in several places, note the record settings used and
email short clips to me (original .wav files).
The LS-10 with your binaural mics should be able handle loud sounds
and settings-- places like nightclubs and other urban locations. You
may decide that you much prefer the "sound" you can get with better
mics-- so on to the more demanding, "quiet location" recording you're
planning.
I'd suggest adding this popular** external mic/support package to
your LS-10 investment:
2- Audio Technica AT-3032 Mics ($350 USD pair) (These mics are much
quieter than the other mics you mention)
2- 8-10 ft long XLRM to XLRF mic cables (~$30 USD)
1- Mini Stereo Plug to 2 Fxlr plugs adapter cable to get from the
Rolls to the LS-10.
http://www.audiogear.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?key=Adpt2FXMSM&preadd=action
1- Rolls PB224 Portable Phantom Power Supply (~$70 USD)
6 - 9 volt rechargeable batteries for above unit OR make a 12 volt
battery sled with 10- 1.2 volt AA NiMH batteries. Connect the 12
volt battery self to Rolls unit with type M coax connector. $20 - $40
USD.
1- Sennhesier HD-280 headphones ($90USD) (or other good enclosed
pair you may own).
1- Smith Victor Rs75, 7'6' Raven Lightstand ($40 USD)
1- DIY "Curt Olson" micrphone mount/stereo array:
http://www.trackseventeen.com/soundscapes/mic_rigs.html His 4" block
unit is a good, easy to make rig at the bottom. You'll need wind
protection too.
The above gear is one of many ways to enable you to make some great
recordings-- technically that is. The PB224 weighs 1 pound and the
mics are 2-4 pounds (mounted) and the tripod is lss than 2 pounds.
You can pack all of this gear very easily. Quality-wise, its suitable
both for web/headphone playback and speaker playback (though the
later is quite a bit trickier to set-up for realistic playback of
location recordings).
You'll need to take some time to study principles and techniques of
stereo micing and placement which is the most important factor in
getting recordings like those you desire. Rob D.
** see: http://tinyurl.com/58px7l
At 6:47 PM +0000 7/7/08, lilyplants wrote:
>Re: [Nature Recordists] Recording Gear For Installation (was Olympus
>LS-10 and S
>
>Hum, it may be that I'll want 2 recorders since I want to walk around to get
>sounds (stealth, conversations, interviews...).
>
>I want as real as possible with open large soundstage.
>all recordings will mainly be used on web site (with headphones).
>can't stand tinny or squashed sounds or wind noise
>
>as for the installation, I hope to have one, so I'm guessing: the
>room would be a gallery
>(glass, concrete or wood floors, open, big). could build a room
>inside a room. could use
>an amp with head phones but already have audioengine 5 (powered) speakers.
>
>installation will include video
>
>I can't carry a lot due to physical limitations. I don't mind
>setting up tripods.
>thinking of doing this on a ranch where I'd have car access. but
>don't want to be limited to
>driving car in. sorry to be vague.
>
>as for budget: I dunno. can you make some suggestions. if I get that
>2 lb sony, I'd have to
>have another recorder, so that gets me close to a thousand.
>besides the binaurals from soundpro low noise gain, I have a
>homemade T stereo wh isn't
>good and an ATM10a omnidirectional condenser mic (has a battery in handle)
>
>do you agree with oryoki that the next best recorder option is the
>edirol 09hr?
>
>thank you so much for your question and interest.
>lily
>
>--- In
><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>
>Rob Danielson <> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lily-- My simple answer is: Mics can matter much more than
>> recorders. Before we get into what mics and stereo rigs might work
>> well for you and then the recorder question you pose,.. Are you using
>> very high quality speakers in your installation? Describe the
>> speakers, amps and surfaces, size of room, HVAC (acoustics) of the
>> room the installation will be in.
>> .
>> Do you want the playback of the recording to be as "real" as
>> possible? Describe some other settings you want to record in addition
>> to, "a field of tall grasses." Also your recording gear budget: How
>> about $1400 for sure-fire, low-noise, spacious recordings? If not,
>> how about $420? Do you might carrying and setting up tripods and
>> cables-- that sort of thing? Rob D.
>>
>> = = = =
>>
>> At 9:45 PM +0000 7/6/08, lilyplants wrote:
>> >Rob, thank you for responding to my question.
>> >
>> >After reading/listening to everything on the site including all the
>> >reviews and uploaded
>> >recordings, I have further questions.
>> >- should I return the LS-10
>> >- buy the Sony PCM D-50 to try
>> >- wait for a light wt. point and shoot with warm sound
>> >- consider something I'm missing (don't want to buy pre amps.. new
>> >mic would be fine)
>> >
>> >It seems to me that the LS-10, although I LOVE the unit, won't
>> >provide the kind of
>> >recording I want.
>> >
>> >the naturerecordists emphasize the Olympus LS-10 over the Sony PCM
>> >D-50 (is that for
>> >wt. and stealth only? or are you more concerned with isolating
>> >sounds than a sound
>> >environment?
>> >
>> >Before I return the LS. I really need some feedback on the recorders
>> >considering my needs.
>> >
>> >I want to do a variety of ambient sounds as well as music. For
>> >example, the sound of a
>> >field of tall grasses for a sound installation; groups of people in
>> >an urban environment. Goal: a you are there feeling which involves.
>> >
>> >last night I recorded music from a DJ with people dancing in a room.
>> >the LS is supposed to have quiet mic pre amps but I could hear an
>> >airy sound over the
>> >music and people which I could not hear with my Sony MD MZ-100.
>> >the LS sounded too tiny to listen to with low cut on.
>> >however, using its internal mics, the LS gave nice separation
>> >between music and people. I
>> >don't know if that was because of the binaural mics for the recorders.
>> >
>> >I very much appreciate hearing from this wonderful group before
>> >making a decision.
>> >lily
>> >
>> >(I've tried to post a rich text message two times as a reply from
>> >Yahoo to Rob's message in
>> >the thread. my new message didn't show up. what's the problem? We do
>> >need to post
>> >from Yahoo don't we?)
>> >
>> >--- In
>>
>> ><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com><naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >Rob Danielson <type@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> At 3:48 AM +0000 7/5/08, lilyplants wrote:
>> >> >I ordered the Olympus LS-10 thinking it would be much easier to use
>> >> >than my MD Sony
>> >> >MZM100 with soundprofessional binaural mics. It is.
>> >> >
>> >> >But it doesn't seem sensitive enough (okay with on high sen, 24,
>> >> >limiter on and clip off).
>> >> >
>> >> >I want it to sound as good as possible with ambient and music. The
>> >> >Japanese warbler is much
>> >> >better recording than I have achieved.
>> >> >
>> >> >What really confuses me are the sound samples. Those Sony PCM
>>D-50 on the
>> >> >Wingfieldaudio.com site are moving (more overtones). The choir
>> >> >sample of the LS is fatiquing
>> >> >and uninteresting. YET the samples provides on this site show both
>> >> >to be noisy although not
>> >> >as noisy as the R09 (can't remember who did them (4 "point and
>> >> >shoot" recorders).
>> >> >
>> >> >How does one account for these differences.
>> >> >and Can one achieve better results with one of these recorders
>> >>over the other?
>> >> >
>> >> >I'm new to ambient recording. Thank you for your help.
>> >> >lily
>> >>
>> >> Hi Lily--
> > >> The "hi-sensitivity" setting does make make good sense for ambience
>> >> recording. Maybe turn the Limiter off? Someone who owns an LS-10
>> >> might be able to post the settings checklist they follow for
>> >> recording quieter sounds and settings. Close-mic'd music should
>> >> produce sufficient sound levels to work with.
>> > >
>> >> As for improving the performance of the LS-10, I'd definitely follow
>> > > Vicki's recent comparison tests and suggestions including using Shure
>> >> WL183 external mics. Other recordists have been posting recordings
>> >> with comments. Here's a search of "LS-10" in the list archive:
>> >>
>><<http://tinyurl.com/5bwupr>http://tinyurl.com/5bwupr><http://tinyurl.com/5bwupr>http://tinyurl.com/5bwupr
>>
>>Raimund's
>> >>suggestion of using external
>> >> mics with low self-noise and very high sensitivity is a good one
>> >> though there aren't too many mics to recommend that meet these specs
>> >> that are well-suited for recording ambience.
>> >>
>> >> In interpreting the samples provided in the review web sites, look
>> >> for tests done in the field using high gain (and preferably with
>> >> specified condenser mics, if external mics are used). Most of the
>> >> conditions I've come across to date are not similar to those found in
>> >> nature recording so they are not a very good indicators of the
>> >> performance you might get. Rob D.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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