Hi Bernie--
Maybe using a phrase, like creating a "feasible
experience" or "respectful representation" are
more to the heart than "real sound?" Its about
have recordings and then goals. Most movie
soundtracks are the antithesis of space or life
within sound, regardless of content. One of the
reasons I enjoy this list is because many
participants _know_ of something much better.
Rob D.
At 8:55 AM -0700 8/7/07, Bernie Krause wrote:
>I offered to go to record for Carroll on "Duma" (he's a friend and=A0
>neighbor). But he said he didn't have
>the budget and that he would pick up a sound recordist in S. Africa.=A0
>Of course, after shooting on location for
> 6 months, they got nothing sound-wise. Sometime while in post,=A0
>Ballard's sound editor called to ask if I had
>a certain sound to match a particular scene. After spotting the=A0
>scene, I provided several versions of the sound
>one of which worked. A couple of weeks later, I got a second call.=A0
>Then a third. Then a fourth. Eventually, I
>ended up providing fully 81 minutes of soundscapes for a 90+ minute=A0
>film. And WB ended up paying me much more
>than they would have by hauling me out to Africa as "work-for-hire"=A0
>on the crew in the first place. But at least the ambient
>layer in "Duma" is not distracting and the film/story is enriched by=A0
>the material.
>
>Directors/producers spend a ton of money to get to locations to shoot=A0
>the right environment.
>But almost nothing for the soundscapes. So there's a disconnect no=A0
>matter how one rationalizes it.
>
>You know, there's something deep in our DNA =96 even if we've never=A0
>been to a place or heard a particular bird or mammal =96
>that tells us when a particular match of visuals and sound feels=A0
>right. This is especially true in film. We don't have
>to "know" if something is technically accurate. Every time something=A0
>is amiss, especially in films that
>are trying to be "realistic" and literal, as many American films tend=A0
>to do, there's a signal
>that triggers a message in our brains telling us that something about=A0
>the portrayal is out of whack.
>
>I once asked Altman about that point and he said "Doing things right=A0
>costs no more. And the
>result is so much better =96 especially for the audience."
>
>BK
>
>>
>>
>> Carroll Ballard's insistence on real sound is admirable, and as you
>> note, rare. I remember when they were prepping Duma and they were
>> scouting for someone to go for a couple of weeks down to Africa to
>> record those FX. And I've tried on several films to get them to
>> include some money from the beginning to send someone to a location
>> for recording. It's been vetoed from the budget every time.
>>
>> I agree that it is very sad, and it certainly extends way beyond
>> sound effects. There are very few directors left period who honestly
>> truly seem to 'give a damn' about much of it at all. I've never met a
>> producer who did.
>>
>> Sigh. Now I'm depressed.
>>
>> On Aug 7, 2007, at 7:01 AM, Bernie Krause wrote:
>>
>> > Mostly laziness, Tim. And profound cynicism (like you say "99%'ll
>> > never know the difference..." so why try to make
>> > a difference with our work, right?) I've been working in film
>> > (writing and ghosting scores and providing EFX since 1963)
>> > having contributed to over 135 features (on the order of Apocalypse
>> > Now, Rosemary's Baby, Shipping News,
>> > Castaway, etc etc etc) and have rarely found directors who had the
>> > willingness or intellectual curiosity to actually chase down the
>> > right ambient material. There are a couple of majors =96 the late Rob=
t
>> > Altman, and Carroll Ballard (Never Cry
>> > Wolf, Fly Away Home, Duma) =96 and a few lesser directors. But mostly
>> > you get the "Aw hell, they'll never know
>> > the difference, anyway" routine. Those aren't the kinds of=A0
>> footprints
>> > I want to leave on my art when I'm gone. Fact is, people DO
>> > know the difference. And care.
>> >
>> > Within this group there are all kinds of great resources from all
>> > kinds of great places. Most of these folks are a
> > > phone call or email away. It takes that much time.
>> >
>> > Bernie
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Aug 6, 2007, at 10:48 PM, Tim Nielsen wrote:
>> >> And the fact is, 99% or more of the people out there probably
>> >> would never
>> >> know the difference (which is also probably a bit sad).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Tim
>> >>
>> >> On Aug 6, 2007, at 8:37 PM, Bernie Krause wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't know how many on the list have seen BLOOD DIAMOND, but=A0
>> with
>> >>> my wife on the road last night, and the Netflix DVD sitting by
>> >> itself
>> >>> on the coffee table and me alone in the house, I put it in the
>> >>> player. For me, it ain't a good flick. Way too violent in the
>> >>> episodic Hollywood American sense to be worthwhile no matter what
>> >> the
>> >>> "cause." But it was made far worse by the terrible sound editing.
>> >>> The story takes place in Africa in (sometimes) forested areas=A0
>> where
>> >>> diamonds are mined. I got as far as the scene where those jerks
>> >>> inserted a Screaming Piha (Lipaugus vociferans) and tropical South
>> >>> American frogs and insects as part of the soundscape. It was at=A0
>> that
>> >>> moment they lost me and I shut the damned thing off. I could no
>> >>> longer suspend disbelief, having no patience for this kind of
>> >>> cynicism.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bernie
>> >>>
>> >>> Wild Sanctuary
>> >>> POB 536
>> >>> Glen Ellen, CA 95442
>> >>> 707-996-6677
>> >>> http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>> >>>
>> >>> Google Earth zooms: Earth.WildSanctuary.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Wild Sanctuary
>> > POB 536
>> > Glen Ellen, CA 95442
>> > 707-996-6677
>> > http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>> >
>> > Google Earth zooms: Earth.WildSanctuary.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>> > sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie
>> > Krause
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>Wild Sanctuary
>POB 536
>Glen Ellen, CA 95442
>707-996-6677
>http://www.wildsanctuary.com
>
>Google Earth zooms: Earth.WildSanctuary.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
--
Rob Danielson
Peck School of the Arts
Department of Film
University of Wisconsin- Milwaukee
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