..snip..
>Hi Klas--
>
>I regret the frustrations you're facing in keeping your excellent PIP
>products on line. No other mic manufacturer has pushed the
>capabilities of PIP mics as far as you have. Your EM-23 is the only
>PIP mic I can think of that has less than 16dB(A) self-noise, the
>great majority have over 20dB(A)
>
>Did you see Richard's "heads-up" on the AK-5356VN-L
>ADC/Pre/PIP/Regulator used in the Sony Hi-MD's?
>http://bioacoustics.cse.unsw.edu.au/archives/html/naturerecordists/2006-07=
/msg00192.html
>download the .pdf of the AK-5356VN-L spec sheet here:
>http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak5356/ak5356_f00e.pdf
>discussion:
>http://www.analogzone.com/avp_0804.htm
>
>Your experiments and modifications show that that the PIP circuit has
>become compromised, but the ADC and preamp circuit in the Hi-MD's may
>be better than any $<350USD recorder to date. Richard's and Bruce's
>bench tests suggested that the noise of the Hi-MD's pre becomes
>audible when using an MKH-40 with 12dB(A) self noise. I tested this
>by ear and felt the HiMD pre performed a little better than this.
>
>It seems that with the exception of the EM-23, those interested in
>low noise recordings in quiet locations would not consider PIP mics
>among the best options. Of course, another option is to use
>conventional, phantom powered condenser mics with a portable phantom
>power supply unit. Eric Benjamin ran a noise test on the $70 Rolls
>PB224 and found it's noise to be safely below that of the Hi-MD's
>pre.
>
>I'm very sorry to hear about the R-09 woes. The AK-5356VN-L link
>above proves your claim that a low-noise, high-gain pre circuit costs
>less than a few bucks! Yet, as readers on this list, we know one
>cannot assume manufacturers understand how important it is to build
>in pre quality.
>
>Maybe its time to package the EM-23 for phantom? I know folks want to
>see the EM-23's become more available here in the States. Could a
>simple in-line power supply as Richard suggested possibly work with
>an EM-23, to get around PIP? Rob D.
Hi Rob, there is a lot to say here, I will try limit myself as much as I ca=
n:
I talked to some guys here, familiar with modern electronic industry In
brief they said:"The IC-designers have been sitting at their computers,
making "elegant" designs, saving parts and money. They don't notice if it
works well or not until it is too late."
Being more respectful:
I have seen the Sony diagrams. They don't say much, but might explain why
inputs have changed "in principal".
The explanation might be in how the High and Low mic inputs are designed.
Before: The first transistor was set for max gain and - thereby - lowest no=
ise.
If the mic output was too strong, you added a -20db attenuator circuit
before the first transistor - still running on max gain / lowest noise.
Now: When you hold up the Edirol R-09, with it's built in microphone in
front of a pop-band, (or Sony HiMD's with a Sony stereo mic) there is no
need to run the first transistor at max gain. It will distort. It is enough=
to vary the gain from mid to low.
For naturesound people this is really bad.
--------------------------
About EM23, external powering and phantom power:
I have many times said that the EM23 has a "average" sound quality, similar=
to ME62 and other 15-20 mm omnis. (HQ sound quality is MKH, Schoeps etc.)
But used with plug in power, it could be made much smaller and handier than=
EM62 etc.
That was the whole point with it.
It is not at all difficult to make a small preamp to EM23, but then you
loose the point with it. There will be an extra box, an extra battery to
worry about, an extra switch to check and an extra cost.
As it looks, you can use it without preamp, but you cannot =96 as before =
=96 be
sure that you use it's low noise performance. It might be destroyed by the=
recorder's low-sensitive and noisy mic inputs.
One doesn't know that, and that is what bothers me.
I have thought of testing different HiMD's, but such a test is possibly
irrelevant. Sony models sold in the US are not the same models as in Europe=
(Asia??) and some Sony diagrams have previously shown different circuitry
for US models than for European.
And being "on the border" one must even consider individual variations.
Remember that resistors and capacitors have a tolerance of +/- 10 to +/-
40% !!!
Again I want to point out that there were TWO different problems involved:
First the low plug in power, which I could cope with, using another FET-IC.
Then- now, 2006 - the low sensitivity + mic input noise. (R-09 is the worst=
here.)
I have made the tests similar to other "clock-tick" tests presented here.
It is an easy and reliable method.
"Correct" means that what you shall hear is the mic self noise.
"Incorrect" means that you hear the recorder's mic amp noise.
I will get back to this topic as soon as I have something to report.
Klas.
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