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Re: full moon, full gain, full bit rate

Subject: Re: full moon, full gain, full bit rate
From: "John Hartog" <>
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 04:51:06 -0000
Thank you Martyn and Jim for the Nighthawk ID.

Rob:  I would say your perceptions about the coyote are plausible. You
know a lot more about coyotes than I do: I can tell this because you
used the word "yotes."  As far as one calling for a partner out of
range, that makes sense because later on in the recording a coyote
answers in the distance to the right.  The echoes are interesting -
aren't they.  I will have to look at the Topo maps for a better
perspective of the surrounding land.

Klas and Rob:  Yes, yes, of course.  Here are some five second
uncompressed wav files of each recording I posted yesterday, plus one
of the robin for which the pmd670 levels were set at 6.

http://www.rockscallop.org/test/nghtcyot-rl10-5s.wav

http://www.rockscallop.org/test/0424-rl10-5s.wav

http://www.rockscallop.org/test/0521_rl07-5s.wav

http://www.rockscallop.org/test/dwncyot-rl07-5s.wav

http://www.rockscallop.org/test/robin-rl06-5s.wav

I think Rob is right about "wavering and artifacts" resulting from the
mp3 encoding.  The hiss however - There was a slight wind and lots of
grass and tall Ponderosa Pines for it to blow through, and two streams
converging in the distance. That being said, I'm inclined to say some
of the hiss is from the recording equipment- the recorder, the mics,
or both.

I am always recording around running water, or wind, or so it seems,
but the next time I am recording around neither, I will get some
samples at full gain and other levels for us to compare.

Oh and Klas, regarding the temperature, for the coyote recordings it
was pretty warm out, I'd say above 50F. With the robin it was cooler,
maybe 35-40F, and some frost on the grass. I have never noticed extra
noise while the NT1-As are warming up, but I will consider it a
possibility.
 
John Hartog




> --- In  Rob Danielson <>
wrote:
> > I'm sure John will post some full res clips when he gets a chance. 
> > I'd be interested in seeing the saturation of a short clip of the 
> > original, full gain recording too--preferably without the running 
> > water. The mushy hiss is typical of compression noise when the 
> > original's bit depth saturation is low. The MP3 codec seems to assume 
> > the original will be well saturated, as is typical with music. I 
> > guess I could generate and assortment of sine tones at 5% saturation 
> > and them run them through a few compression settings. Rob D.
> > 
> > At 4:34 AM +0200 8/1/05, Klas Strandberg wrote:
> > >Rob, can you make a "hiss" demo with different MP3 settings?? I am
> > >unfamiliar with that sort of hiss. The noise I hear on John's
> recordings
> > >sounds like "typical transistor noise".
> > >
> > >John - can we have a few seconds of the Robin or Coyote as .wav?? I
> really
> > >need to sort this out.
> > >
> > >Klas.
> > >
> > >At 03:24 2005-08-01, you wrote:
> > >>Thanks John! Love the yotes. Is the first single perhaps calling for
> > >>a  \partner thats out of range?  She/he is turning and calling in
> > >>different directions right?  The sources of three slap back echos
> > >>towards the end are interesting to think about too.
> > >>
> > >>I believe the widely distributed hiss, waivering and artifacts are
> > >>largely the result of the the mp3 encoding. Its 1:45 long  and
> > >>requires 1.6mb, so a data rate of 15.6K bytes/sec. Low even for mp3
> > >>standards. An uncompressed file would give us a better sense of
> > >>noise, if any, introduced byt the pre. Rob D.
> > >>
> > >>    = = =
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>At 2:55 AM +0200 8/1/05, Klas Strandberg wrote:
> > >>  >Hi John!
> > >>  >
> > >>  >In his "self-noise" debate: Now when I hear your recordings
> again - after
> > >>  >getting acquainted with the NT1A, - I think I hear a hiss which
> does not
> > >>  >come from the mic.
> > >>  >
> > >>  >It could be atmospheric noise (leaves, grass in very minor
> wind) but it
> > >>  >sounds electronic. Is it the PMD670 or something else?
> > >>  >
> > >>  >Or is this what the NT1A sounds like when it is cold?
> > >>  >Which temperature did you have?
> > >>  >I hear it also on the Robin recording. Same "hiss".
> > >>  >
> > >>  >Klas.
> > >>  >
> > >>  >   when I listen to your recordings.At 01:08 2005-08-01, you
wrote:
> > >>  >>Last weekend I returned to the Aldrich Mountains: this time we
> stayed
> > >>  >>at Deer Creek Guard Station.  One nice thing about this forest
> service
> > >>  >>cabin (and also the one at Murderers Creek) is no
electricity. The
> > >>  >>lights, refrigerator, and stove run on propane, which does
> make some
> > >>  >>noise but nothing like the annoying hums and buzzes that
come from
> > >>  >>electrical devices.
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>Just after dark I went out on a walk listening for owl sounds,
> but I
> > >>  >>didn't hear any.  A little later as the nearly full moon rose
> from the
> > >>  >>trees and illumined the meadow, a coyote began beckoning
others to
> > >>  >>join in chorus.  In this recording there are two coyotes, some
> > >>  >>crickets, and a mystery bird - any takers? (1.6MB) (PMD670
> full gain,
> > >>  >>NT1-As at 60deg and with barrier):
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>http://www.rockscallop.org/ear/jh-050722-nightcoyote.mp3
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>For Rob Danielson's comparisons of recorders and microphones, he
> > >>  >>requested examples recorded at full gain. For the PMD-670, the
> maximum
> > >>  >>gain is an unimpressive 45dB.  Here's a 30 sec example at dawn
> at full
> > >>  >>gain.
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>http://www.rockscallop.org/ear/jh-050723-0424_rl10-60dg-b1.mp3
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>Here's another short example with the levels set at 7 out of 10.
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>http://www.rockscallop.org/ear/jh-050723-0521_rl07-60dg-b1.mp3
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>Here's another example (PMD670 set at 7) of coyotes joining in
> chorus
> > >>  >>around 5:30 am.
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>http://www.rockscallop.org/ear/jh-050723-0526_coyotechorus.mp3
> > >>  >>
> > >>  >>Any comments, questions, or suggestions are welcomed.
> > >>  >>-John Hartog





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


"Microphones are not ears,
Loudspeakers are not birds,
A listening room is not nature."
Klas Strandberg
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