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Re: Beginner

Subject: Re: Beginner
From: Walter Knapp <>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:12:54 -0500
From: Jeff and Crystal Smith <>
> 
> The comment about the ME66 in a parabolic makes sense that it would be too 
> pinpointed.

That's up in the air a bit don't get too impressed with the 
directionality of a shotgun mic. When I suggested it, it was knowing 
that it might not be the optimum mic for the parabolic. But what you 
want is good enough for your uses, and I think it would do that. Under 
the right conditions I've recorded frogs in a clearly identifiable 
manner with the Telinga from as much as a mile, and surprisingly high 
quality recordings from 300 yards, you are not asking for the ultimate 
in it's performance.

Maybe you can sweet talk someone in the group with both a Telinga and 
the ME66 to give it a try. Lots of folks here will test the life out of 
something with the drop of a hat.

I should probably point out something that may not be entirely obvious. 
We have a wide range of people in the group. There are some so 
hyper-picky that everything has horrible faults. And when we listen to 
what they are getting hysterics over we have a great deal of trouble 
even hearing what they are talking about. At the other end of the range 
we have some just happy with whatever they get, and everything in 
between. Don't take every negative thing to heart without investigating 
just how meaningful it is. Or you will end up never finding anything 
that will do. The truth is there are probably several ways of equipping 
yourself that would satisfy you. And none of us know for sure what you 
want exactly.

> A parabolic seems like it would be difficlut to manuver with me in some of 
> the locations I seem to end up.  That is what is appealing with a shotgun 
> mic.  What range would be good for a ME67 to be effective?

I'd go with 50 to 100' a third the distance you specified. But it 
depends on what you are recording somewhat. Do you want just the call, 
or should the background sound reasonable? How loud is the call? that 
sort of thing. I think your choice of a ME shotgun as a first mic is a 
good one and maybe what you should do is get out and record and then see 
what you need from there. You can expect your kit to grow as you get 
farther into nature recording in any case. Unless you are very seriously 
rich, you will not be buying everything to get started. Get enough to 
get out recording, and get started on being as opinionated as the rest 
of us. It costs less in the long run to buy based on experience. Only 
way you get that is to get out and record.

A parabolic is more awkward in some ways, but I've taken my Telinga 
through very thick brush, waded swamps with it and lots of similar 
stuff. You just have to move a little slower sometimes but it's 
surprising how fast you can get through. The tricky part comes when you 
try to do it and not make a sound. I can do that too. The Telinga is 
light and not as large as older parabolics were. I also use shotguns, 
see below, and those setups are more delicate and cause me more 
transport problems than the Telinga in spite of their seemingly better 
shape.

One thing we have not discussed, but I should probably bring up now. You 
will find it's extremely hard to hand hold that shotgun without handling 
noise. It's going to need a suspension of some kind, which can be hand 
made. And if there is the slightest breeze it will need wind protection. 
The foam 'windshields' you see on mics don't cut it outdoors. The 
official stuff will cost more than the mic easily. Look on my M/S mic 
page where I show a M/S setup using a MKH-60. The ME66 is just a little 
longer than the MKH-60, but would fit that suspension and windscreen.
http://frogrecordist.home.mindspring.com/docs/my_ms_setups.html
Somehow you would need to provide something like you see there if your 
sites are going to be other than still air. There are a lot of creative 
things that can work. But you will need something.

Come to think of it, don't forget headphones. You need them for 
recording, and they need to not leak sound. Walkman generally come with 
headphones, but they often leak too much sound and that mic picks it up. 
I use closed studio style headphones out in the field.

> Also if I need a pre, what is a reasonable one to look at?

I think trying to go with a pre is going to be another step up in your 
starter set price. Try going without it first. If you are expecting to 
step up from the consumer MD to a higher quality recorder later, a cheap 
pre will just get used short term. For a long term plan you would be 
looking at a pre that would later complement the high quality recorder. 
And that's more money.

> I do set up blinds from time to time to be close to what I want to 
> photograph.  As mentioned before I have mostly wedding and portrait lenses.  

That is a good way to do sound recording too. If you can get that close 
then, of course you can avoid needing the parabola. Some here use a 
ghille suit to record. Some types of birds it works, others it does not. 
This is a complex hobby.

Walt






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