Please note, that I'm participating to this discussion because I'm
interested in the technical aspects of nature sound recording in
general. I find it interesting to exchange opinions on this matter.
The software and equipment I offer is mainly targeted to scientific
research in animal communication. So, there are probably no
potential customers on this list...
Please show me the horrible artifacts on my spectrograms! You should
also note, that some of the recordings are of course of a bad
quality. But this results from bad recordings conditions. In order
to minimize the file sizes, I reduced the bit-depth down to 8 bit in
some cases. This is appropriate, because it sometimes does not make
much sense to retain the high noise floors of the original 16 bit
recordings. Even those 8-bit 'junk' files do not show any artifacts
that are comparable to ATRAC artifacts. The only 'artifact' you can
find is a relatively high overall (quantization) noise. But that
noise does not change throughout a recording as it would be the case
in ATRAC. There will be no artifacts within the remaining 8-bit
dynamic range.
Sound recording for investigating animal sound communication often
does not require high-end equipment. There is no need to produce
high-quality and noise-free sound recordings for audio CD
publication. So, my recordings and spectrograms are fully
appropriate for that purpose.
Regarding the spectrograms - you can use any other spectrogram
software to verify the sonograms.
I would appreciate if you stopped any further personal attacks. I'm
sure, that you can get the same objective information from many
others. One source would be the Audio Engineering Society:
http://www.aes.org/publications/AudioCoding.cfm
Best regards,
Raimund
Walter Knapp <> wrote:
> Klas Strandberg wrote:
> > Thanks Raimund. What I would like to understand a bit is how
good the simple
> > AD, DA converters in modern walkman type DAT's and MD's are.
When using a
> > Portadisc compared to a cheap Sharp MD, what role does the AD,
DA converters
> > play?
> > And the converters on cheap sound cards?
> > Will a typical cheap converter on a standard sound card make
visible changes
> > on a sonogram?=20
>
>
> I believe he already stated his position on this and I quote:
>
> "The differences between various A/D converters or pre-amplifiers
can
> surely be neglected compared to the effects sometimes introduced by
> ATRAC. Believe me or not"
>
> So only ATRAC matters. No other problems exist.
>
> I take a somewhat different view, but I seem to be the only one in
this
> discussion. I will continue to pay attention to the entire
recording
> system while followers of Raimund's opinion can use the meanest
cheapest
> pre's and A/D's as long as they don't use ATRAC. Remember, in
blind
> listening tests even experts do no better than chance at picking
out
> ATRAC material from non-ATRAC. And that was true for much older
ATRAC
> than current. And since in his opinion expressed above the rest
can be
> neglected compared to ATRAC, they will certainly never create any
> noticeable audible difference.
>
> I do like to get my info from others than just people selling
their own
> recorder and software, as Raimund is. Just go look at the
identical
> "compression" artifacts to be found on the sonograms of bird
recordings
> on his site. Recordings made with his recorder and analyzed with
his
> software. No compression I believe. Is his recorder making the
same
> horrible artifacts as compression, or is his sonogram software
creating
> artifacts. One or the other of his products made those.
>
> > Would you say that cheap AD, DA converters cause more trouble
than
> ATRAC and
> > MP3??
>
> My opinion on this has been stated. ATRAC is almost always judged
from
> recording made on a walkman, even though it is used in other
places. A
> walkman is a piece of equipment designed to be good enough for
someone
> to listen to with cheap headphones while jogging or walking on
noisy
> city streets. It simply does not have to be very good at all. It's
to
> the credit of companies like Sony that they make equipment like
that as
> good as they do, it's way overkill for the job.
>
> Yes, a major portion of the trouble is A/D, pre's, soundcards and
all
> the rest, particularly the parts associated with computers.
>
> As far as supposed ATRAC "problems" in comparison to pro level
recorders
> and studio equipment, it would be really amazing to find that a
walkman
> did as good.
>
> Walt
>
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