Oh really hybrids? That was not mentioned in the original post. Of course if the species being imported comes from another part of the world into the range
of a native species, that could create confusion and lead to hybrids. By my looking at books (well Cade anyway) I reckon it would be pretty hard to differentiate between the 3 species of large brown falcons (Saker, Laggar & Lanner) in north Africa and middle
east at the best of times. They look almost the same. Are they really all valid separate species anyway? Not that I have any experience with any of them or ever likely to....... These people allegedly even like the Gyrfalcon, that comes from close to the arctic,
how would they survive the Middle East? Wow would Arab countries have rarities panels?
Philip
From: Michael Lenz [
Sent: Thursday, 2 February, 2017 4:16 PM
To: David Rees; chatline
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Off topic: falcons as consumables
...and inevitably some of those falcon hybrids escape, giving headaches in identification to observers and rarities panels!
On 2 February 2017 at 15:22, David Rees <> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Philip Veerman <> wrote:
Yes obviously and the use of (hawks, including buzzards and eagles etc) surely includes more species
that the number of falcon species) is part of falconry and most books of relevance still refer to them all as order Falconiformes. I agree they look like Saker Falcons but that is only by going by the book: “Falcons of the world” by Tom Cade, that starts the
Saker Falcon species text with: “Favourite hunting bird of Arab falconers.......” The implication from the article is that all these birds are all captive bred. It does not say where this breeding is happening, to then be sent to en route to Saudi Arabia.
As for the word use 'falcon hawks'
it is not in usual use but I stand but my description of not unusual ignorance. It is not as bad as those (many people) who would call apes, monkeys, even worse because they are our relatives............ Remember the furore about Adam Goodes being called an
ape, of course he is, as am I, but I am not a monkey.
Philip
From: David
Rees [
Sent: Thursday, 2 February, 2017 10:23 AM
To: Philip Veerman
Cc: Con Boekel; canberrabirds chatline
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Off topic: falcons as consumables
The word 'falcon' is well understood by the worldwide English-speaking community. The usual English word for the activity these birds are kept for is 'falconry' after all!! True,
use of 'Birds of prey' to describe a 'functional group' has a place, even though it consists of two quite separate groups of birds, same with 'Vultures' - given the differences between 'new world' and 'old world' sorts.
On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Philip Veerman <> wrote:
Nothing unusual about the ignorant or people writing for the ignorant – or even the ordinary non expert
person, referring to 'falcon hawks'
as on the basis that most people in the world would not know what a “falcon” is. As for
Falcons and Hawks as we now know are quite unrelated!
Well may be so but that is a recent technicality that hardly anyone knows. There is a vast amount of books and literature about “birds of prey” etc that refer to them as one group. They may have different origins but that is hardly common knowledge but they
functionally and ecologically are entirely reasonable to consider together.
Philip
From: David
Rees [
Sent: Thursday, 2 February, 2017 7:36 AM
To: Con Boekel
Cc: canberrabirds chatline
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Off topic: falcons as consumables
Interesting that the Guardian used the words 'falcon hawks' - Falcons and Hawks as we now know are quite unrelated! Look like Saker Falcons to me - wonder if they were captive
bred?, as they are declining in the wild.
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