Re: FW: [canberrabirds] Scarlet Robin

[David Rees <>]

Ah the 'precautionary principle' - what you do in the absence of data.  Coming from a 'biosecurity' background,  I am very aware that use of the 'precautionary principle' is banned for the management of invasive exotic species at and before the border by international treaty (WTO  SPS agreement - to which Australia is a signatory).  Australia does not use the the 'precautionary principle' for regulation of medicines or pesticides either. 

I live on a small bit of land a Gungahlin suburb which as a sheep paddock 10 years ago.  The density of native birds - including breeding ones - on my plot with my house on it is probably higher now than it was 10 years ago 'cos there is cover which I have provided, where before there was none. Its the least I can do. There are all those drainage systems with their crakes etc. where before there was an eroded creek line with no water in it most of the time and no shade.  Is building a city, with the benefits it has given us - including work etc., and even birds all bad - no.

Look at Google Earth - see how much space Canberra takes up relative to the area it is placed in - not much.   If species are declining on a regional basis then widespread regional impacts are more likely at play.  What we do over a few hundred ha in Canberra will have an effect locally but what effect will it have on a widespread species on a regional basis - little unless something similar is happening everywhere else.

By international standards Canberra has an amazing amount of land under some sort of protection including many good bird watching spots.  Management could be better, but much of that is a result of limited resources and not a reflection on the hard work of ACT Park staff. In places like the UK, local community organisations have themselves had to buy on the open market and then manage such neighbourhood places themselves to order to preserve them. 

If the arboretum site had been developed for housing one can only imagine what would have been built there - I'm sure it would not have helped our housing affordability problem!!

David

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Con Boekel <> wrote:

It is a conundrum with no perfect answer.

So, what are our preferred imperfections?

One issue is that, while the boundaries are imaginary lines and do not mean anything to the birds, the jurisdictions are real and each jurisdiction makes real decisions that do mean real things for the birds.

Taken in that context, I reckon we should do our bit, preferably in concert with NSW.

Our bit should be based on our best information for each species.

The beauty of the woodland survey data is that the same rules have been applied consistently for a long time.

It is subject to error but it is better trend data than other jurisdictions have for much of their wildlife.

Typically series data for much wildlife has stops and starts.

If there is a doubt, the precautionary principle should operate and, IMO, action is usually better than inaction.

One way of looking at the Scarlet Robin is that actions taken to conserve, protect or enhance its habitat are very likely to have incidental beneficial effects for many other woodland species.

On the matter of statutory definitions and their application to approvals and the like, how long is a piece of string?

I am reminded of a British naturalist who made the observation that in Britain there was some individuals left of just about everything, but not a lot of anything left of many species.

He was mourning the loss of abundance he had experienced as a child.

Maybe we should invert the objective: we want abundant wildlife rather than trying to hang onto shards and skerricks here and there, with non-extinction being the benchmark.

This should not be taken as a general endorsement of the ACT Government's management of woodland biodiversity in the ACT about which I am in a state of irritation.

regards

Con

On 9/04/2016 2:10 PM, David Rees wrote:

Given the ACT is surrounded by NSW and the border is just a human construct  I would agree with you.  If the ACT contained populations of something where all or almost all of it was just in the territory then some local listing would make sense.  No bird species fits into that category, though some reptiles might. We are just a small part of greater south eastern Australia.  

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Geoffrey Dabb <> wrote:

Here again then.  My view is that the statutory  concept of ‘threatened’ (which depends on the meaning of  ‘extinct’) does not make much sense in relation to birds in the ACT.  Most complaints and misunderstandings about status determination come back to that dilemma.   I made a submission on the review of the Act at the time.  Attached is a more recent note.

 

 

From: David Rees [m("gmail.com","dprbirdlist");" target="_blank">]
Sent: Saturday, 9 April 2016 7:59 AM
To: Mark Clayton
Cc: COG List
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Scarlet Robin

 

Mark

 

Mark I agree when I look at the data I can see many species with more worrying status than the Scarlet Robin. Why was this one picked?

 

I have had dealings with the current Environment Minister and I have not been impressed.  Much of what is going on is green wash.

 

David

 

 

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Mark Clayton <> wrote:

Hi all,

 

Having birded locally in and around Canberra for over 50 years, I don’t need graphs to tell me that the robin and many other species are declining. I had to laugh when I read the Canberra Times article asking for comments on the draft plan of management for the species. There is one, and only one, simple answer – STOP BUILDING HOUSES ON THE BIRD’S HABITAT – it really is that simple. We destroy valuable natural habitat for housing and use a clapped out piece of former pine plantation eminently suitable for housing to put in a totally environmental UNfriendly useless arboretum. I have looked at the current ACT list (I was on a committee that reviewed the status of the ACT’s birds) and from memory there were 72 species that COG should be keeping records on. Many of these to my way of thinking are in a far worse situation than the Scarlet Robin. One of these days I will get around to writing something on my thoughts (Michael Lenz don’t hold your breath) for Canberra Bird Notes. Many of the species involved will rarely figure in the GBS survey so that source of information is not very good.

 

Whatever comes out of the plan I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the current ACT environment minister (who won’t be there after the next local election) to do anything constructive. I have had numerous dealings with him via email and found he is at best ignorant and at worst stupid when it come to the local environment. The same goes for the Chief Minister who is just plain arrogant. The dollar will come before everything else with the environment generally last in their thinking. Several people on the chat line have commented on proposals to build new suburbs or extra housing in existing areas. No-one from the government will take any notice of you or of COG. I wish you well trying to stop development but you are really flogging a dead horse. The only thing that scares me more than this current government is the thought of what the Liberal Party will do to the so called “Bush Capital”.

 

Mark

 

*******************************************************************************************************
This is the email announcement and discussion list of the Canberra Ornithologists Group.
Emails posted to the list that exceed 200 kB in size, including attachments, will be rejected.
All emails distributed via the list are archived at http://bioacoustics.cse.unsw.edu.au/archives/html/canberrabirds. It is a condition of list membership that you agree to your contributions being archived.
When subscribing or unsubscribing, please insert the word 'Subscribe' or 'Unsubscribe', as applicable, in the email's subject line.
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>
List-Subscribe: <>
List manager: David McDonald, email <m("canberrabirds.org.au","coglists-owner");" target="_blank">>