There seems to be some confusion here about what we are talking about, or
perhaps it is just me that is confused:~
The confusion is probably caused by the field guides (well, Pizzey anyway) that
talk about base of the tail. I assume what we're actually talking about is the
uppertail coverts or the bottom of the rump, which may be found at the base of
the tail.
So, yes, Philip, we're talking about tips of feathers, not base of feathers.
Also, to clarify, when I said that the bird in Tun Pin's photo was probably an
immature Pied Currawong and not a Grey Currawong, and not an aberrant form or
bird suffering from disease, I did not mean to imply uncertainty about the
species.
It is clearly a Pied Currawong, and I couldn't actually understand why there
was any doubt about that because the two species, in Canberra at least, are
quite distinctive in my experience.
What I was saying was the bird was probably an immature Pied Currawong, rather
than an aberrant or diseased bird.
However I have not closely observed young Pied Currawongs to comment with any
certainty about the amount of white showing at the base of the tail or how the
moult from immature to adult feathers progresses.
Regards
Frank
-----Original message-----
From: "Philip Veerman"
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:11:55 +1100
To: "'Tun Pin ONG'" "'Bruce Ramsay'"
Subject: Pied Currawong Markings
> Surely the white on the rump feathers is at the tip of each feather and
> not the base. That would be easy to check from museum specimens. If that
> is so, it is not possible for a white patch to appear in time after the
> black shows, as the tip of each feather appears first. So I cannot work
> out how it is possible for "the bird that I saw earlier but it has now
> grown a bit of white on its base of tail". Unless those feathers with
> the white tips grow after the lower feathers have matured. This would
> seem a bit odd but it is a possible explanation for those few birds that
> show this feature. It surely is Pied Currawongs we are talking about not
> Greys so we can forget that aspect. The feature is not that uncommon and
> probably just some variability in the speed at which these feathers grow
> or variability in the length of time during the growing of these
> feathers from the point at which the switch for no pigment changes to
> start pigment.
>
> Philip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tun Pin ONG
> Sent: Friday, 22 January 2010 1:07 AM
> To: Bruce Ramsay
> Cc: Canberrabirds
> Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Pied Currawong Markings
>
>
> Hi Bruce and all,
>
> I went to the same patch in Cook on Monday where I earlier photographed
> the 'uniform-rumped' Currawong. Did not see any Pied Currawong with such
> feature. But I saw one with 'dotted line' of white spots along base of
> tail. Another one with 2 white patches of white at the sides of the base
> of tail. At least 2 others with typical white crescent at base of tail.
> If it is both Frank and Bruce's suggestion that this is some
> transitional plumage for subadult, then perhaps one of them was the bird
> that I saw earlier but it has now grown a bit of white on its base of
> tail.
>
> I have seen a photo of Dark form Grey Currawong from Handbooks of Birds
> of the World (out of range from Canberra), where this dark form does
> look very similar to the typical Pied Currawong, and the bill of this
> dark form of GC is slightly thicker, hence make it even closer to PC.
>
> Hope this generates some interests in otherwise very common and dull
> looking backyard bird. If the feature of 'uniform-rumped' in Pied
> Currawong has been documented anywhere, please let me know. Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Tun Pin ONG
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Ramsay <>
> wrote:
> > The other day Ong Tun Pin wrote in regarding the absence of white at
> > the upper tail base (considered in Field Guides to be indicative of
> > Grey Currawong) of a presumed Pied Currawong that he had seen and
> > photographed in Canberra recently.
> >
> > Frank Antram replied on this chat line (others may have responded to
> > Tun Pin privately - I don't know) that he felt the bird was probably
> > an immature Pied Currawong and not a Grey Currawong. And not an
> > aberrant form or a bird suffering from feather disease.
> >
> > I would just like to confirm Frank's intuition ?(maybe personal
> > observation?) with a direct observation. I have just had a young Pied
> > Currawong in the bird bath in our back garden here in Gordon. I am
> > confident that it is a Pied because it has been fed (and is still
> > begging vociferously) by adult Pied Currawongs. It seems certain it is
>
> > their offspring. I was unable to get a photo but clearly saw the
> > bird's back. It too has no white at the upper tail base.
> >
> > I don't know if this is a feature of ALL juvenile/immature Pied
> > Currawongs (I suspect not). And I don't have access to a HANZAB so I'm
>
> > not able to check there to see if it notes this feature and how
> > widespread it may be.
> >
> > But it now seems certain that SOME juvenile Pied Currawongs in
> > Canberra (the bird Tun Pin photographed and the one I have just
> > observed here, at the very least) do not show any white at the upper
> > tail base.
> >
> > Hope this is of some interest.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bruce
>
>
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