<>Thanks Stephen
I also said
"To avoid any possibility that such results could be skewed or biased
manifests from statistical manipulation and to help put this leg
flagging debate to rest, at least one if not more, independent
scientific studies need to be undertaken; " specifically based on
project objectives designed to test/identify the survival rate,
mortality and negative impacts from leg flagging/banding/radio
tracking/cannon netting on small migratory waders (i.e.. birds no larger
than Sanderling). " This is what we are asking for and if the results
were corroborated and verified by a robust field study (not just
reviewing existing statistics) designed to identify banding impacts,
that would be a great outcome and we could put the matter to rest
<>My comment "not robust enough" was is in the context of what adequate
data is required to satisfy the concerns of those who are gravely
concerned about the impacts of leg flagging migratory waders.
The statistics are I presume from their existing data base supplied
mainly by the same pro bird banding group subject to the criticisms.
The reply was in response to previous discussions and a request to
instigate a study into the impacts of banding. The results supplied
can hardly be accepted as an example of unbiased independent review.
Obviously as an individual i do not have access to the same levels of
information as the pro cannon netters/leg flaggers and I agree, their
data sets are impressive and would provide a great comparison for
verification from an independent review into banding impacts. But what
I do have however is nearly fifty years of field experience watching
waders and I have seen adverse impacts personally not only in the
physical damage caused to some of the birds by leg flagging but also
from an emerging feeding aversion behavior demonstrated in many waders
in recent years. This flighty, easily disturbed characteristic appears
to be developing, probably in response to the startling fright and
stresses caused by cannon netting and the further stress that follows
during the subsequent handling.
Some would argue that more timid behavior could be an advantage to help
these birds in other places, but what i see are more birds more easily
disturbed than ever before. When waders are more easily disturbed from
their feeding and roosting areas when attempting to build their energy
reserves and rest prior to migration, it could have a hideous effect on
success of their migration even without the added burden of bands.
Regards
Ian
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Ambrose wrote:
Ian said:
" I have studied Clive's response copied below and I thank him for this
and fully accept many parts of the reply that are clearly correct,
however the stated conclusions about survival rates of small migratory
waders after banding are based on statistical data not robust enough to
be used adequately for such conclusions, nor collected for the purpose
in a project environment designed to test banding impacts."
Ian, could you please explain to us why you think the statistical data
presented by Clive are not robust. The sample sizes for each treatment
(metal bands, metal bands + some flags, metal bands + lots of flags) are
very large (5,489 to 11,258), yet calculated annual survival rates
associated with each treatment are very similar. Most
zoologists/ornithologists/field ecologists/biostatisticians would be envious
of such large data sets.
How did you reach the conclusion that the data are skewed, biased or
statistically manipulated? From reading Clive's response, I don't see any
evidence of this. Perhaps I am missing something, so would be delighted to
hear your explanation.
Kind regards,
Stephen
Stephen Ambrose
Ryde NSW
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